Why can't they retrofit existing R1's with NACS?

[Zoidz]

I wasn't thinking weight was an issue. But I definitely know people (and spouses) who see it as a hassle needing to pull out an adapter every time they need to charge. I've actually helped change out the L2 charger cable at a friend's home charger because it was "enough of a hassle for them to want to do something about it," which is probably the real standard for this kind of swap.

Such first world problems (sighs). "OMG OMG OMG OMG I have to connect the adapter ....... AGAIN!!!"

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[mkg3]

Honestly, this is kinda a sweet spot to be in right now. CCS has pretty much proliferated everywhere a charger is going to be, so we benefit by default, not having to worry about connector types. And then for the most reliable/expensive charging network, we have an adapter that can be used with roughly 75% of that infrastructure to backfill, or better yet, give us alternatives.

Don't get me wrong, NACS is better because it's sexier, but worrying about charging on trips has been a non-issue for the better part of 4 years for me more.

I don't understand the desire to replace CCS1 with NACS. Agree that by having access to both, it gives more options where and when to charge.

While NACS plug is smaller, lighter and significantly easier to plug in and out than CCS1, having the option to use both far outweighs the bulkier, heavier plug + adaptor. Furthermore, NACS equipped vehicles must use an adapter to access CCS1 so both have the same inconvenience, if you call it that.

Currently own both Tesla and Rivian so I am very aware of both.

 

[bigsky]

My Teslas and my Rivian always shall use nothing but Tesla chargers both at home and on the road even though I carry the necessary charging adapters with each EV just in case.
It takes a lot more effort to talk about using the NACS adapter on my Rivian than it does to actually use it.

Having my Rivian Gen 1 retrofitted with a NACS port for me makes about as much sense (actually less) as wanting my Teslas retrofitted with a CCS port.

 

[carsly]

Did you have your iPhone with LIghtning port refitted with a USB-C port? Or how about that stereo with a 30 pin ipod dock?

Same same. If you want new ports, buy the new model. Otherwise its adapters and dongles. Nothing new.

 

[csharp]

Did you have your iPhone with LIghtning port refitted with a USB-C port? Or how about that stereo with a 30 pin ipod dock?

Same same. If you want new ports, buy the new model. Otherwise its adapters and dongles. Nothing new.

Great analogy.

 

[VSG]

Should be simple for Apple to retrofit my old iPod with a USB-C connector. I'd even pay $50 for it.

 

[jalynn2]

Until the entire changing network is converted to NACS, you need to carry an adaptor to have access to the maximum number of charging stations, regardless of which port your car has. Coming from Tesla to a Gen 1 R1S, I see a large number of Tesla SC's marked as Tesla-only. I was surprised to see that even on the PA Turnpike rest stops, which are limited access on a toll road. They are relatively new, so it it not the Gen 2 SC restriction, and ISTR that was a factor in the NJ Turnpike giving Tesla the boot off of its rest stops. So I am happy enough with my CCS1 port and the Rivian supplied NACS->CCS1 adapter. I use an A2Z NACS-J1772 adapter with my Tesla wall connector at home. For years, I was using the Tesla supplied J1772->NACS adapter with the Chargepoint Flex at my vacation home, so adapter use isn't a big deal. Paying for a port upgrade would be a waste of money IMHO.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I would prefer not having adapters, but it is what it is. That said, I would pay ~$500 or so if Rivian offered a retrofit. NACS is a smaller, more convenient form factor.

Repeated multiple times in thread now. It's way more than a port change and would require a new HV pack. Try more like... $15,000 in hardware alone.

 

[carsly]

The simple answer is the Applegreen solution to offering NACS charging. Just glue a NACS adapter to your charge port and rip the door off. Problem solved.

PS yes, from images across the interwebs and first-hand reports Applegreen does not have NACS handles. They have CCS handles to which they glue on a CCS to NACS adpater.

 

[ENVErider]

While I share your sentiment and may be willing to pay to have it retrofitted (depending on cost), I don't think its as simple as swapping out a charge port form factor.

As I understand it:

The NACS connector uses the same two pins for AC level 2 charging as it does for DC fast charging, whereas CCS1 uses different pins. On the CCS1, the top connector is a J1337 connector which handles signalling and AC charging and the bottom two is the DC fast charging pins. That's why you need different adapters to use NACS to charge L2 than you need for DC fast charging.

In order to do the adaption, as I understand it (but I'm no expert), you would need to have some switching mechanism to send the power to the right cables depending on whether you have AC or DC going through the pins. This likely increases the complexity and cost beyond what is likely worth it over just using adapters.

I think all your points are part of it; simply, it's not just about different plug heads and moving conductors around. It's been nearly a year, but I watched reporting somewhere on YouTube that adoption was also slowed because the Tesla chargers required their own proprietary "handshake" or network communication to get the charge started up. I don't know all the technical details, but there's a lot more than just plugs and wires to sort out. Reporting on relocating the port on the R2 was simply a wiring/conductor coordination and added cost.

 

[hgpayne]

Don't want it, wouldn't pay for it. I'm accepting that EV's will use adapters for the long haul and in my area, CCS chargers are more abundant, available and cheaper than Tesla infrastructure. I also have a Y and use an J1772->NACS adapter at home for L2.

A recent road trip through a dozen western states I DCFC a total of 41 times and used ChargePoint 8 times, Electrify America 2 times, RAN 10 times and Tesla 21 times.

Average cost of charge (total spent divided by kWh added):
ChargePoint $0.41
Electrify America $0.51
RAN $0.56
Tesla $.037

Note I did have both a EA Pass+ plan ($7/month) and Tesla membership ($12.99+tax/month) to bring the price down. Only using EA twice the membership did not save me anything. I would have been better off paying full price. The Tesla membership saved me $186. Given I paid $14*2 for the membership (2 month trip) my savings were really $158. That practically pays for an adapter (had I not gotten it free from Rivian).

Your mileage may vary. My plan is to go to Tesla FIRST.

 

[Jared2]

Did you have your iPhone with LIghtning port refitted with a USB-C port? Or how about that stereo with a 30 pin ipod dock?

Same same. If you want new ports, buy the new model. Otherwise its adapters and dongles. Nothing new.

This is quite funny… and while I am on my 3rd Rivian (and have no intention of upgrading again), with promotions, upgrading my iPhone cost only the charge of the taxes after trade-in of my old model… not exactly the same as trading up a Rivian.

;-)

 

[TomServo2112]

Did you have your iPhone with LIghtning port refitted with a USB-C port? Or how about that stereo with a 30 pin ipod dock?

Same same. If you want new ports, buy the new model. Otherwise its adapters and dongles. Nothing new.

Was it an option? That's what OP is asking for.. the option, which naysayers would never need to participate in if you feel that strongly about it. I happen to disagree with the OP as you do, but this is an analogy fail. As far as I know, no iphones with lightning port retrofit options were offered anywhere, yet plugging in a simple cable for $10 from Amazon is a lot less of a hassle than having a second EVSE or the adaptor that sometimes gets stuck, sometimes works fine, then gets stuck again the next time. And of course, the barrier-to-entry to simply upgrade one's phone is a lot lower than it is with a $100k vehicle.

 

[carsly]

Was it an option? That's what OP is asking for.. the option, which naysayers would never need to participate in if you feel that strongly about it. I happen to disagree with the OP as you do, but this is an analogy fail. As far as I know, no iphones with lightning port retrofit options were offered anywhere, yet plugging in a simple cable for $10 from Amazon is a lot less of a hassle than having a second EVSE or the adaptor that sometimes gets stuck, sometimes works fine, then gets stuck again the next time. And of course, the barrier-to-entry to simply upgrade one's phone is a lot lower than it is with a $100k vehicle.

I have a Gen 2 R1S with legacy CCS port. I wanted one with the NACS port to future proof but time and circumstances were what they were. 8 months later and I've had no issues.

I do have a NACS to CCS adapter, purchased from Rivian, and another from a third-party. Is it ideal? No. But I have been carrying a CCS to NACS adapter in my Teslas for years and that's fine too. Oh, I also carry J1772 adapters in my Teslas and use them at Chargepoints. Not an issue.

The infrastructure won't change plug points overnight. Heck, I still see Chademo handles but have never seen a vehicle use them. With all the deployed CCS handles, there are going to be adapters of one form or the other for quite a while, likely longer than the useful life of a Rivian. I don't like adapters, but that's just where we're at and it's really not an issue unless you're DC fast charging a few times a day at Tesla stations. Even then, it's a minor inconvenience.

If the port type is a major inconvenience, then at some point change to the vehicle that has the plug type you prefer.

PS I have Tesla Universal Wall Chargers at home, and those are perfect. No muss, no fuss charging of Tesla, Rivian or anything else.

 

[electruck]

this timely article has a practical take on the near-term transition from ccs to nacs:
https://insideevs.com/news/775910/nacs-story-experience-kia-leaf/

personally, I couldn't care less and don't understand why this gets so much attention. Will it be nice when everything is 100% nacs, sure. in the mean time, we have options and whether or not I have to use adapters has no impact on the quality of my life.

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