Anti-EV agenda

[Virtio]

Just wait until solid state batteries have ironed out the problems and ev sales will explode.

Soooon... https://www.donutlab.com/battery/

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[beatle]

Maybe I'm just yelling at clouds at this point, but PLEASE stop taking it as "fact" that EVs are more expensive to insure. And PLEASE stop repeating this talking point of the anti-EV crowd.

I'm not sure what post you read, but I didn't compare them to ICE vehicles. I just said insurance rates for EVs are going up. More insurance companies realize that they'll write them off in more cases due to repair costs being very high, with some components such as the battery being more likely to be damaged, at least visually by the adjuster, even if the battery itself is perfectly serviceable.

Your Civic seems disproportionately expensive to insure because people like to steal them.

 

[VSG]

I'm not sure what post you read, but I didn't compare them to ICE vehicles. I just said insurance rates for EVs are going up. More insurance companies realize that they'll write them off in more cases due to repair costs being very high, with some components such as the battery being more likely to be damaged, at least visually by the adjuster, even if the battery itself is perfectly serviceable.

OK. But in context of this thread, when you list "EV headwinds" and talk about the cost of insuring EVs, it sure sounds like you are comparing/contrasting to ICE vehicles.

Rising insurance costs are probably depressing ALL vehicle sales, ICE and EV both.

Your Civic seems disproportionately expensive to insure because people like to steal them.

Civic Hybrid. I left that part out. No one steals these, because they're no fun.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

The $7500 tax credit wasn't applicable to the majority of people purchasing a Rivian so I don't think it hit Rivian as much as it did other EV makers.

There was the lease loop hole so it did help people leasing it but I'm not seeing much difference in the before and after lease cost.

2025 Rivian R1S Trim	Previous Lease Price	Current Lease Price
Dual Standard*	$819/month	$709/month
Dual Motor	$879/month	$909/month
Tri Motor	$1,299/month	$1,399/month
Quad Motor	$1,799/month	$1,769/month

 

[2kwik4u]

So I reject the notion that EVs are inherently significantly more expensive to insure BECAUSE they are EVs. Any differential can almost certainly be attributed to the price of the vehicles, the level of technology, the relatively lower volumes of production, the limited repair history, profiteering on the part of the insurer, etc., not to some EV-specific risk factor.

Agreed, and I have an anecdote to support. My '24 R1T was $12/mo LESS to insure than my '17 Q7. Same coverage, same person, same region, same company.

 

[DuoRivian]

OK. But in context of this thread, when you list "EV headwinds" and talk about the cost of insuring EVs, it sure sounds like you are comparing/contrasting to ICE vehicles.

Rising insurance costs are probably depressing ALL vehicle sales, ICE and EV both.


Civic Hybrid. I left that part out. No one steals these, because they're no fun.

Not sure I would agree the Civic hybrid is no fun - it is faster than the Si (albeit with out a manual)

 

[Jonger1150]

https://www.donutlab.com/battery/

Bye bye gasoline vehicles. First solid state vehicle on the road in March.

This is not proof of concept -- it is actually a finished production ready unit that has been reviewed.

370 Miles of Range.
200 kW charge rate.
400 wh/kg density.
15 minutes to fully charge from dead to full.

$48,000 in 2026. It only goes down from here.

Before this the best bike got like 90 miles of range and took 5 hours to charge.

 

[VSG]

First solid state vehicle on the road in March.

Willing to put money on that?

 

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Agreed, and I have an anecdote to support. My '24 R1T was $12/mo LESS to insure than my '17 Q7. Same coverage, same person, same region, same company.

Agreed +1

My 2023 Rivian was $17 more per month to insure than my 15-year-old beater Chevy pickup. If I couldn't afford that, I wouldn't have been shopping for any new car.

 

[SANZC02]

I purchased my first EV in 2016, a Tesla Model S, I was so impressed with how an EV handles I started looking for an electric SUV to replace my Jeep GC, placed a deposit on the R1S when I found it.

My original purchase was about saving money, federal and state tax breaks, lifetime free premium connectivity and lifetime free Supercharger access. Still have the Model S, 112k miles, still running great. No plans to get rid of it, as a matter of fact, last summer took it on a free 7500 mile road trip.

Now though, I enjoy the EV driving experience so much, just do not see me ever buying an ICE vehicle again. Not about the cost or the environment, just the joy from driving them.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

EVs are a foregone conclusion at this point. They are better than ICE in every way besides range/fueling. Range gets better every day, and IMO it's already good enough for anyone who has the ability to charge at home.

 

[savethemanual]

EVs are a foregone conclusion at this point. They are better than ICE in every way besides range/fueling. Range gets better every day, and IMO it's already good enough for anyone who has the ability to charge at home.

Anyone today that says other is simply kicking the can down the road. Rivian knows this, but is keeping it friendly with the current administration...who is the one kicking that can. It would be so hard if I was in RJ's shoes to bite my tongue like he so eloquently does.

 

[lefkonj]

• Insurance costs for EVs are up due to their incredible repair prices (see above) and quick insurance adjuster judgement about component failure.
• Service times for EVs can be very long (not just Rivian)

Funny we have 2 EVs and our insurance dropped this year by hundreds of dollars. While in the beginning my Rivian took longer to service that isn't the case anymore, and it never was for my BMW.

 

[usulio]

This is an excerpt from an editorial by some generic commentator: Rivian’s rapid loss of thousands of would‑be customers did not come from a botched product launch or a viral quality scandal. It came from a policy cliff. When a key federal tax incentive vanished, a fragile demand story around premium electric trucks and SUVs was suddenly exposed, and the company’s delivery numbers show just how quickly that shock rippled through its order book.

The specific argument here is that the federal tax incentive was propping up Rivian sales. I don't have the numbers to dispute that but I strongly doubt it. For one things, leases still got the incentive.

Furthermore if the logic is that R1 is a good buy at $72,500 but a bad buy at $80,000, then you must be excited about the future of EVs because technology is evolving fast enough to make up that $7.5k difference soon.

 

[NY_Rob]

Soooon... https://www.donutlab.com/battery/

Sketchy at best.... for a product that's currently "shipping" they still refuse to disclose the cell chemistry? Not even one single outside/independent review of their "product" so far. Many think their product is a scam comparing it to Theranos?

Can Kyle ride a bike?

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