Are you still in love with your LFP battery?

[cthelan]

Okay if you say so. I think this statement says it all.

Btw, have you read any threads here about how Gen 1 is being neglected compared to Gen 2? It only gets worse as the time goes on.

Neglected or not Gen1 was the best thing Rivian ever made. Have an early Gen1 that was clearly hand built and rock solid. Gen2 LFP we picked up last year is a joke for the price point.

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[iamnid]

That’s good to know. Perhaps the car looks at outside temps and not just the battery temp. But I’ve tried about a dozen times (with proper preconditioning) to exceed 150 kW during charging and so far nothing. Maybe I’ll wait till warmer weather to see if the pack charges faster

how long does it maintain 200 kW before it ramps down ?

It holds for quite a while... off the top of my head it's about 35-40%. It stays over 100kw up until about 65%. Re-reading your initial post, you probably started charging with the state of charge too high to see 200kw at all, or for any appreciable amount of time. I usually run down to at least 10% on my road trips. Granted, now that I understand there's a calibration issue, I'd be less inclined to do that on my next trip until I get the text saying my calibration is complete.

 

[beatle]

Okay if you say so. I think this statement says it all.

Btw, have you read any threads here about how Gen 1 is being neglected compared to Gen 2? It only gets worse as the time goes on.

What does it say? That I don't view things as inherently disposable? Or that I buy nice things because they last longer?

I've read those threads. I've called Rivian out for small things that have been withheld from gen1 when it's only software. But there is actually very little that gen1 isn't getting that isn't otherwise tied to a hardware difference. The vehicles should be perfectly serviceable for 10+ years.

 

[mkg3]

Neglected or not Gen1 was the best thing Rivian ever made...

Technically, this is not true. Gen 2 is better made than Gen 1. Gen 1 R1 vehicles were the first vehicle Rivian made so much improvements are incorporated into gen 2 and further improvements going into R2.

 

[mkg3]

...The vehicles should be perfectly serviceable for 10+ years.

I'd never said that the vehicle would not be serviceable or that its useless.

My original point is that the vehicle will not be able to do things newer models can, especially as a SW defined vehicle.

Unlike old fashion ICE vehicles where the mechanical running was the vehicle, most new vehicles, especially EVs are more of CPUs, GPUs and other sensors on wheels. As such, all I said was that one cannot directly apply ICE vehicle paradigm onto any EV, especially with AI looming to define the vehicle OS sooner than later.

Personally, I do not keep my vehicles more than 4~6 years max or roughly 80k miles. I like new things and see no value of keeping old vehicles that tend to require more maintenance and/or service.

 

[beatle]

Your initial message was in response to someone who keeps their vehicles for an extended period of time. You're free to replace your own vehicles as often as you like, but it's silly to pretend like they've gone bad or they have to be replaced with a similar lifecycle of a laptop. You can definitely apply the "ICE paradigm" to an EV. An EV is still expected to be durable transportation in the way that ICE has been.

 

[Rivian-E]

Also of note - and this is a well known fact - LFP performance in the cold is really poor. Once the pack drops below ~40 degrees you can tell immediately.

Yes!! This. The biggest thing for me is the HUGE performance hit in the cold. I’m in a place that just had a 10 day period below freezing and it was hell for my range.

 

[mkg3]

Your initial message was in response to someone who keeps their vehicles for an extended period of time. You're free to replace your own vehicles as often as you like, but it's silly to pretend like they've gone bad or they have to be replaced with a similar lifecycle of a laptop. You can definitely apply the "ICE paradigm" to an EV. An EV is still expected to be durable transportation in the way that ICE has been.

Let's agree to disagree. We see the issue very differently.

 

[hmw]

It holds for quite a while... off the top of my head it's about 35-40%. It stays over 100kw up until about 65%. Re-reading your initial post, you probably started charging with the state of charge too high to see 200kw at all, or for any appreciable amount of time. I usually run down to at least 10% on my road trips. Granted, now that I understand there's a calibration issue, I'd be less inclined to do that on my next trip until I get the text saying my calibration is complete.

Oh I’ve charged from 10% and 15% with the same result. This was with both at a Tesla v4 and also a v3 supercharger. The only thing I can think of is that it was 0F outside.

maybe I need to get a SC appointment

 

[SoCal Rob]

My original point is that the vehicle will not be able to do things newer models can, especially as a SW defined vehicle.

If this is your yardstick for useful life then a typical software defined EV lasts longer than a typical hardware defined ICEV.

I haven’t purchased an ICEV since 2017, but my experience is that:

• A typical hardware defined ICEV will NEVER be able to do things that a newer model YEAR has added unless the consumer pays to install newer or accessory parts, if that’s even possible.
• Software defined vehicles MAY NOT be able to do things that a newer model GENERATION can. However, Rivian has a history of ALWAYS giving older vehicles capabilities of newer vehicles of the same generation and drivetrain.

Can anyone name a single 2022 ICEV that has seen the zero-cost upgrades and additional features that the R1 Gen1 vehicles have gotten?

 

[beatle]

Can anyone name a single 2022 ICEV that has seen the zero-cost upgrades and additional features that the R1 Gen1 vehicles have gotten?

Ford has deployed a number of improvements to Sync4 since 2022, including wireless AA/CP (previously wired only), interface changes, and games.

BMW added streaming, gaming, and interface improvements.

Mercedes added Dolby Atmos, info on navigation POIs via Google, and other UI changes like new icons and shortcuts.

Hyundai/Kia updated their shift by wire system via OTA updates, smart garage integration, and navigation route calcuation based on live traffic data.

And really, any vehicle that has AA/CP has seen changes/improvements to the infotainment UI and software as those platforms mature. That's really a virtue of offloading much of the infotainment to Google/Apple which is a smart low-cost improvement that most automakers have made (except GM that removed AA/CP from new vehicles because they're stupid).

Most infotainment now is software defined, and most vehicles have some kind of internet connection to update it. OTA updates may have been pioneered by EV makers like Tesla, but they're not unique to EVs anymore.

 

[Jobo95]

Only go Large/Max Pack for frequent highway driving. The trade off for the significantly higher lease payment is not worth it unless you consistently need max range. No issues in a warm climate. Easier on the wallet and tires. Level 3 charging? always gets it done when asked upon. No complaints.

 

[mkg3]

If this is your yardstick for useful life then a typical software defined EV lasts longer than a typical hardware defined ICEV.

I haven’t purchased an ICEV since 2017, but my experience is that:

• A typical hardware defined ICEV will NEVER be able to do things that a newer model YEAR has added unless the consumer pays to install newer or accessory parts, if that’s even possible.
• Software defined vehicles MAY NOT be able to do things that a newer model GENERATION can. However, Rivian has a history of ALWAYS giving older vehicles capabilities of newer vehicles of the same generation and drivetrain.

Can anyone name a single 2022 ICEV that has seen the zero-cost upgrades and additional features that the R1 Gen1 vehicles have gotten?

I read your post twice and I believe we are in agreement.

The whole point is traditional ICEV, people are not expecting updates; whereas, for EVs, thanks to Tesla, setting the precedence, people have come to expect OTA SW feature upgrades.

With an average age of all autos on the road in US roughly at 12.8 yrs old, both EVs and Hybrids are much newer (3.5 yrs and 4.9 yrs for PHEV and 6.9 yrs for hybrids).. In particular, ICEV passenger cars are at 14.5 yrs old. (https://www.bts.gov/content/average-age-automobiles-and-trucks-operation-united-states)

Clearly, EVs and hybrids do not have the history of ICEV and especially EVs. I think the first mass produced EV, Model S, is 2012 so it's only 14 yrs. We'll see the long term lifespan as more time goes by.

Which brings to the part that we view differently. What I consider to be real capability upgrades. There is nothing in R1 firmware update that enable the capabilities of computer driven feature such as ADAS. Not only the HW in R1 gen1 is older and less capable, new vehicles (gen 2 and certainly R2 - LiDAR) have additional and newer sensors and processors, along with newer architecture.

Our Tesla is 2018 with 70k miles. It's 8 yrs old and the longest/oldest vehicle we own. It has been bullet proof without any maintenance and issues. It has been the best daily driver vehicle I've ever owned. Yet it cannot do FSD as it has HW2.5 and cannot do most of the features newer models can do. I will replace it later this year or early next year with another daily driver EV.

So, enabling games, music and other simple tasks are one thing. Enabling new HW and SW integrated capability is something completely different. I do agree that suspension/ride control with firmware update is well done by Rivian.

To your last point, for the 2025 model year, McLaren updated Artura as mid-cycle update with more HP, torque, SW, suspension and engine mounts. The Artura was introduced in 2022 and they updated all pre 2025 Arturas with more HP and torque for free to their owners. No McLaren did not upgrade the HW parts, but the additional power did make a big difference to the earlier model years.

 

[SoCal Rob]

Ford has deployed a number of improvements to Sync4 since 2022, including wireless AA/CP (previously wired only), interface changes, and games.

BMW added streaming, gaming, and interface improvements.

Mercedes added Dolby Atmos, info on navigation POIs via Google, and other UI changes like new icons and shortcuts.

Hyundai/Kia updated their shift by wire system via OTA updates, smart garage integration, and navigation route calcuation based on live traffic data.

And really, any vehicle that has AA/CP has seen changes/improvements to the infotainment UI and software as those platforms mature. That's really a virtue of offloading much of the infotainment to Google/Apple which is a smart low-cost improvement that most automakers have made (except GM that removed AA/CP from new vehicles because they're stupid).

Most infotainment now is software defined, and most vehicles have some kind of internet connection to update it. OTA updates may have been pioneered by EV makers like Tesla, but they're not unique to EVs anymore.

First, I think we agree that software defined vehicles (or just software defined infotainment) is not the negative that @mkg3 was making it out to be in comparison to vehicles which are NOT software defined infotainment any way.

Also, I may have been too subtle with this part in bold: Can anyone name a single 2022 ICEV that has seen the zero-cost upgrades and additional features that the R1 Gen1 vehicles have gotten?

I don’t think any of those vehicles you mentioned had changes in the same league as what the 2022 Gen1 R1 vehicles saw, with this sampling just off the top of my head:
Added
Garage door opener
360° overhead view
Blind spot camera view
Kneel mode when parked
Instrumentation screen
Adjustable interior ambient lighting
Consumer ability to change tire and wheel settings
Memory settings for vent positions
Ability of Highway Assist to execute an automatic lane change

Improved
Ride quality
Navigation (MapBox to Google Maps)
App control over vehicle
Charge scheduling of vehicle

The legacy manufacturers of ICEVs don’t typically increase capability of sold vehicles to this extent.

 

[beatle]

Well, I'm not going to go list off every improvement that different ICE manufacturers have released via OTA updates. I don't know what the point of that exercise is. My point is that these kinds of updates are not specific to Rivian, or even EVs in general. All manufacturers now love them because they can use this evolution as a selling point in the brochure, control aspects of the vehicle (for better or worse,) and sell high-margin promises instead of fully baked solutions.

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