Doug DeMuro Can't Stop Praising R2

[blipit]

The upgraded iX3 M70 that will be coming (or whatever they call it) is going to be a performer. Very interested in that compared to the R2 Tri

There are supposedly two performance oriented iX3 models coming. The iX3 M60 xdrive(dual-motor) with 600+hp. A full blown M version...iX3 M. No leaked specs on the latter. But rumors are drivetrain from upcoming iM3...so quad motor.

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[runwithscissors]

I agree that the iX3 and EX60 are the strongest competitors entering this sector in 2026, but netiher are directly comparable to the R2; the EX60 cross-country model might get close, but no one will be taking the ix3 off road on some of the terrain we've already seen the R2 validation builds taking on this Tuesday.
I think Tesla should be more worried about the iX3 than Rivian; the iX3 appears to be a direct Model Y competitor, and for anyone like me who doesn't prioritize autonomy, it's more compelling. The ix3 interior is so much nicer than the Y, albeit a bit space-age. Of course, neither of these is actually ready to ship, and there's a chance they'll be released at higher prices, allowing Tesla to keep its lead.

I'd bet the number of people who take R1 offroad now is less than 5% and that's being generous. New R1 buyers are Tesla defectors or want something different, not offroaders like Gen1 R1T buyers. They've run out of people willing to plunk down $100k for a truck and need R2 going forward. ix3 will destroy the R2 with a range of 400 miles and it'll be plenty fast for the avg person. Exterior on the R2 looks better than BMW but the interior looks plasticky cheap compared.

 

[CrazyOne]

IX3 will be the big deal if the pricing lines up. While they have slightly different purposes someone buying a 65k SUV will shop both.

I don't think IX3 is priced for volume. It is probably ok to convert BMW and possibly Mercedes owners looking for an EV.

 

[CrazyOne]

At some point I would like to imagine they would make a dumbed down version of the R1 to allure more shoppers, but it really depends on the pricing of the R2 and how close they would be. R1 with just dual motor, no air suspension, no brembo brakes, smaller wheel package, etc for like 65k would be awesome.

I wouldn't have agreed prior to owning one, but I think you are correct. Even if you ignore the price, not having to deal with a complex suspension is a plus for people who want to buy rather than lease.

 

[TexasBob]

IX3 will be the big deal if the pricing lines up. While they have slightly different purposes someone buying a 65k SUV will shop both.

Agree 100%. Like it or not (and I know many people here are in the "not" category), R2 is all about AI and Autonomy (or at least it will be come ~December). [note made a couple of edits on the tech details]

• Dedicated edge AI chip so its assistant is not cloud dependent and latency is near zero.
• Eyes-off ready autonomy computer (triple redundant 1,600 TOPs 3-5 times more powerful than the latest Tesla FSD)
• Eyes-off sensor suite (at least highway capable) of Lidar, 5 Radars with 360 coverage, 11 6MP+ cameras, etc.

The reviews for now are focused on the basic vehicle (range, charging, driving characteristics, practicality, etc.) because all of the test vehicles have the old technology stack. But the data from RJ is clear: Rivian puts its money into the on-board technology instead of the faster charging etc. On this dimension it is far more capable than the BMW. It is competing with the Mercedes (2028 model), and the 2028 Escalade IQ, Audi Q8, and maybe the Lucid Earth (as well, of course, as the Tesla with the HW5 in late 2027).

Rivian spent its discretionary COGS on AI and autonomy technology. BMW and Volvo spent it on range and charging speed.

 

[Bullwinkle]

The upgraded iX3 M70 that will be coming (or whatever they call it) is going to be a performer. Very interested in that compared to the R2 Tri

Frim what

There are supposedly two performance oriented iX3 models coming. The iX3 M60 xdrive(dual-motor) with 600+hp. A full blown M version...iX3 M. No leaked specs on the latter. But rumors are drivetrain from upcoming iM3...so quad motor.

$80k and $110k?

 

[Bullwinkle]

Agree 100%. Like it or not (and I know many people here are in the "not" category), R2 is all about AI and Autonomy (or at least it will be come ~December).

• Dedicated edge AI chip so its assistant is not cloud dependent and latency is near zero.
• Eyes-off ready autonomy computer (triple redundant 1,600 TOPs 30 times more powerful than the latest Tesla FSD)
• Eyes-off sensor suite (at least highway capable) of Lidar, mm WaveRadar, 11 2MP+ cameras, etc.

The reviews for now are focused on the basic vehicle (range, charging, driving characteristics, practicality, etc.) because all of the test vehicles have the old technology stack. But the data from RJ is clear: Rivian puts its money into the on-board technology instead of the faster charging etc. On this dimension it is far more capable than the BMW. It is competing with the Mercedes (2028 model), and the 2028 Escalade IQ, Audi Q8, and maybe the Lucid Earth (as well, of course, as the Tesla with the HW5 in late 2027).

Rivian spent its discretionary COGS on AI and autonomy technology. BMW and Volvo spent it on range and charging speed.

Rivian's tech advantage is much more than AI and Autonomy--the entire car is an integrated computer--not 20 subsystems like virtually every other old-school car brand. This is what the VW group actually paid for. The battery is 10-20% smaller than BMW, but if the R2 hits 300+ miles EPA and can charge at 200+kW deep into the pack, it will still be well-suited to road trips. It makes no difference at home.

You will need to spend at least $15k extra to get the BMW variant that can compete with R2 in performance.

I have road-tripped thousands of miles in my R1s. On a big driving day, I recharge twice on the road because I leave home or the hotel at 100%. You are correct that both charging stops are 10 minutes longer than some cars, not a big deal. Out of Spec's road trip last fall from Maine to Key West was informative--The R1S finished 30 minutes behind the winning EV on a 24-hour drive.

 

[DuoRivians]

I am interested in hearing his thoughts on the new EV vehicles coming out. IMO, Rivian has its work cut out for them.

 

[Eric_partman]

He mentioned something I’ve been thinking: R1S sales will fall when R2 comes out. And if Tesla’s trajectory is any indication, R1S may eventually go the way of Model X in a few years - meaning discontinued. There’s basically two factors that will keep R1S alive: 1) people who want 3 rows/7 seats and 2) Those who want to go more off-road than the R2 can handle.

For the first group, I think the R2 platform is flexible enough to shorten to make an R3, it’s probably flexible enough to stretch to make a 3 row R2. Again, it’d be like what Tesla did in China: make a longer Model Y with 3 rows.

And for the 2nd group, people who want to go even more off-road than the R2 can handle, will probably go to the Scout Traveler… unless Rivian makes the R1S even more rugged in Gen 3 (locking diffs, full size spare tire carrier, etc.), but there’s not a large market for that level of off road capability, so I don’t think they’ll go that way.

I think the difference to me (as someone who has had a Y, X, and R1S) is that the X was way too small as a full size SUV, so there wasn’t a reason for most people to spend the extra money to get the X once the Y was out. R1S and R2 I think are different enough in size (R1S is actually a full size SUV) that it might not be like the X/Y.

 

[Time2Roll]

At Rivian's volume ambitions of 175k per year just out of Normal and not including the one's in Georgia, I don't think most people will be taking Rivian R2s off road. That's why on-road characteristics like ride quality and even autonomy matters so much in R2 design.

Probably not much recreational rock crawling and yet plenty prefer some capability to get down unpaved rural roads in the rain and snow.

 

[emoore]

The other advantage of R1S is range and towing. R2 won’t be impressive there unless they make a much bigger battery pack option, which they probably won’t because it competes with R1

I'm really curious as to the towing capacity of the R2. Love the 3rd gen 4Runner size and capability but would like to have 6000 lbs towing for when I get a boat (hopefully).

 

[savethemanual]

I am interested in hearing his thoughts on the new EV vehicles coming out. IMO, Rivian has its work cut out for them.

They do indeed, no doubt about that....the competition is heating up. This is great for us consumers and exciting times!

Remember, Rivian is a brand new car manufacturer and thus far, their initial products have been fantastic! They have a lot of room to grow as a company, sure hope they stick to the ethos & brand they have now, it's appealing to many, including me.

 

[lefkonj]

Some will, assuming the prices line up. Not me. I find the form factor of my 4Runner very useful. I’ve had two. The R2 will replace my current one. The BMW holds zero interest for me.
Additionally, I have concerns about trad carmakers making EVs, as that model does not bode well for its dealer networks. The dealers do rely on maintenance services for their continued existence.

As someone who owns a BMW I4M50, I can tell you BMW does an amazing job with their EVs. Drives and looks like a BMW. I get that people will want the utility of the R2 but there are plenty who want the looks as well. I like the R2 but I also like the IX3 and since I have an R1S it would be what the other half wants more. If it was Mercedes I wouldn't care because they really screwed their EV line up with truly odd designs. Audi hasn't made an EV that has range or charging that competes with even the worst of them.

In the mid 40s the R2 should be killer and will eat up plenty of market share. A loaded one though will have to compete with some tough competition but that is fine, they want to market share in the sub-60k category anyway.

 

[M3_R2]

Conversations don't happen at 0ms latency. I'd rather have AI that was cloud based and much more capable but with greater latency. Network speeds will only continue to get better. ADAS is always onboard.

Rivian markets itself as appealing to the adventurous crowd yet what percentage care about all the AI features? I'm not sure I see the convergence but I'm sure they have bigger plans so it may all work out in the end.

They don't have the resources to develop batteries in-house so it's not like they had the choice there.

Around my area and esp north of me, most off roading is cutting through forest and brush that would eat these so called SUV's alive. People that actually go off-road tend to have vehicles dedicated to the task.

The competition is real and it is very good. Great times ahead (finally) for the EV consumer.

 

[R2D2TOO]

As someone who owns a BMW I4M50, I can tell you BMW does an amazing job with their EVs. Drives and looks like a BMW. I get that people will want the utility of the R2 but there are plenty who want the looks as well. I like the R2 but I also like the IX3 and since I have an R1S it would be what the other half wants more. If it was Mercedes I wouldn't care because they really screwed their EV line up with truly odd designs. Audi hasn't made an EV that has range or charging that competes with even the worst of them.

In the mid 40s the R2 should be killer and will eat up plenty of market share. A loaded one though will have to compete with some tough competition but that is fine, they want to market share in the sub-60k category anyway.

I get it. If you like the looks of a BMW, then of course this (the IX3) will appeal to you.
I am not a fan. But I do like the looks of the R2.
And, the utility aspect is important to me.
I had one experience with a German vehicle. I won't do it again.
The dealer network support is also an issue, as I mentioned.
I also like the idea of buying American, although that is low on my list of considerations.
My current stable includes 1 American made and 2 Japanese made vehicles.
.

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