At what point is the R1T outdated?

[Craigins]

Any charger which meets HPC-350 must be able to deliver up to 920V. This includes the EA 350kW chargers currently out there.

And you think the current transmission grid has the excess capacity to support additional 2.1 MW loads every 50 miles down interstates?

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[Bullitt]

By the time we have 1k batteries, the charging infrastructure will be built out, and range anxiety won't be a thing.

That's like saying i have range anxiety in my prius c, driving 360 miles and getting about 250 mi per tank. I just stop twice to fill up.

Agreed. my GX470 with AT tires gets about 275 miles at best for $100 in gas. With AT tires on the R1T I’m looking at pretty much the same range. While I get the range anxiety argument, I also find it moot. I’ve never had range anxiety in my GX even several hours into Death Valley with no petrol station in sight.

It is about charging infrastructure since range anxiety is also related to lack of charging options on every corner like a petrol station.

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

Rivian is already planning updates.

• We know a removable roof option is coming this year.
• *Limestone is coming!* /s
• We have reports that a winch is coming.
• An improved Tonneau is coming.
• Software is being updated seemingly every week to two weeks.
• We have rumors that the clasps of the flaps of the Gear Tunnel are being improved.
• The charging curve is being improved.
• The responsiveness of the screen has been improved.
• We've seen patents that point to the implementation of active suspension.
• Concerns about the inductive phone charger have apparently been heard and are being worked on.
• It's a no-brainer that internal computing power will be updated as subsequent chip orders are placed.
• We know vertical integration of batteries is in the plan.
• What else?

It's pretty clear to me that I won't be getting a 5 year old truck. By the way, the 2025 editions of Ford, GM, etc., are already on the drawing boards and plans are being made. Also the 2023 and 2024 iPhones are already being lined up, along with agreements for parts manufacturing.

The sad truth of our temporal reality is that something needs to be planned, built, and assembled before it can be delivered. So you're always getting yesterday's tech. Paradoxically, that delivery actually makes it today's tech.

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

By the time we have 1k batteries, the charging infrastructure will be built out, and range anxiety won't be a thing.

That's like saying i have range anxiety in my prius c, driving 360 miles and getting about 250 mi per tank. I just stop twice to fill up.

I'd rather a 1,000 mile battery. If the fastest charging is 20%-50% then I could get 300 miles of range in 5-10 minutes. That works for me.

Of course the reality is that increased battery capacity and efficiency will not lead first to increased mileage, but to fewer installed batteries and less weight.

I predict the sweet spot for EV's will be 500 mile battery. When we exceed that mark, EV companies will start adding fewer batteries to make that 500 miles of range ever cheaper.

 

[skyote]

Haven't read this thread, but I have a simple answer to the question:

When it no longer meets your needs.

Tech is always evolving so "outdated" is relative and an individual determination.

 

[Dark-Fx]

IMO, it would have been better for the company to have delivered a bunch of trucks that had a few build issues than this constant radio silence while they try to make everything perfect. Our family will be refunding and moving on if there are not several hundred actual customer deliveries by April. Apologies for the gloom.

There's a lot of your comment I don't agree with, but I'm just going to touch on this because I've been closely dealing with the way GM has been handling their EV truck launch.

GM says they've never deviated from their timeline, but a single delivery in the last week of Fall 2021 doesn't really count IMO. The timeline that was given out to individual people in the Fall seems like it's going to be fairly accurate. (Mine was Winter 2022) My truck's configuration was finalized in November. They said a month later the chargers were going to come (it did), and one-two months after that, the delivery would happen.

I got an e-mail a week and a half ago that my truck was built, a couple days after that, the dealer had my VIN. They said they were supposed to get the truck yesterday, I haven't asked about it yet, but they aren't able to generate an invoice for me yet so they can't tell me what it's actually going to cost.

GM is putting a mandatory 5 business day hold on the first trucks after they have been delivered to the dealer. A GM tech is coming out to the dealership to do a quality check on the truck. GM isn't taking any chances that the first trucks have any sort of an issue because the launch is going to be so important to them. There is no way that's a scalable process once their build volume starts to ramp up. If Rivian is doing this with their vehicles after delivery to their service centers, you aren't going to hear about at all because they are still in Rivian's hands, not a third party.

 

[LeoH]

Agreed. my GX470 with AT tires gets about 275 miles at best for $100 in gas. With AT tires on the R1T I’m looking at pretty much the same range. While I get the range anxiety argument, I also find it moot. I’ve never had range anxiety in my GX even several hours into Death Valley with no petrol station in sight.

It is about charging infrastructure since range anxiety is also related to lack of charging options on every corner like a petrol station.

First unrelated point, the GX is my backup option Even though I hope the 2023 model will be a bit more graceful on the gas, and has better tech!

Range anxiety is definitely related to the infrastructure, but the time to charge up is also a big player. Now, Ev owners do not need to charge 100% everytime, once they get the number of decent charge to about 5 minutes for let's say 100 miles, I think people will relax a bit and we are not far off that number. That's like an ICE car stopping to get 5 gallons of gas just to get by.

The problem with infrastructure, at least in the US, is that the grid will not be able to handle it. I was having a conversation with a scientist at Aragon Laboratories who is part of the mission responsible to figure that shit out; he basically said if manufacturers really switch to all EV in the next 10 years, we will not be able to sustain the load, mainly at peak hours. So that is why the EV infrastructure roll out is slow'ish, they have a lot to consider. It's not just about scattering high capacity chargers everywhere. Upgrading current grids is an insane job, so the alternative is to have a petrol station model. Instead of underground gas tanks, we will have underground mega batteries to store power, they would pull from the grid and augment all that with solar and wind power; so essentially you would be charging your EV from the underground battery and not the grid. That comes with it's own challenges as well....etc

 

[ajdelange]

The biggest areas where I feel the Truck seems outdated compared to modern EVs are:
1) Heat pump HVAC for added range.
2) Camera quality.
3) No dash camera.
4) No streaming for LONG charging sessions.

These are more missing features than places where the technology is not "bleeding edge". The latter would involve things like new transistors (and Schottky's) that switch faster, higher device PIV ratings, DSP chips that do the transforms faster thus allowig more transforms (and updates) per second, improved sensorless rotor position estimators, better insulation, improved radar and sonar sensors and algorithms to fuse them....

 

[ajdelange]

And you think the current transmission grid has the excess capacity to support additional 2.1 MW loads every 50 miles down interstates?

Yep.

 

[EVTrucking]

Being old is not all bad! In 3-5 years I will probably be taking a forever dirt nap.

The R1T is going to be my last vehicle.

 

[Craigins]

The problem with infrastructure, at least in the US, is that the grid will not be able to handle it. I was having a conversation with a scientist at Aragon Laboratories

Argonne . I work there. I also do grid modeling and agree with they guy you talked to.

 

[mkg3]

The most obvious things that will be outdated, unless they continue to update components as production proceeds (like Tesla) are:

- LTE (should be 5G already) and WiFi
- LiDAR or whatever they are using currently for Driver+
- Cell chemistry
- Infotainment GPU

While I do not believe SS Batteries are common place in 2~3 years (more like 5+ yrs), charging as mentioned by most of you clearly will lag compared to newer models.

So in anther words, expect all the "computer-like" things to be outdated quickly, if not already.

 

[Max]

There will always be something that was just announced that will be way better when it comes to market. The question is how old you are (how long can you wait). And what shiny new features are most important to you.

I think with inefficient BEVs that can tow, charging speed and range are the biggies. On range I don’t see others doing too much better and it will always have space/weight penalty. CT may announce 500 mile but I doubt many will hold their breath for it at this point. On fast charging, I would want the capability even if infrastructure is not there yet. When EVs are lining up at charging stations, you want as many of them out of there as fast as possible. I don’t want to be the slow dude that get the dirty looks five years from now. When towing if I have to stop every 80 miles to charge, slow charging means getting an ICE instead of BEV so any truck that solves that problem first will take business from others even if buyer plans to tow occasionally.

The non mobility functions that can pull me away from Rivian is Silverado’s midgate and 10.2 KW power. But if Silverado don’t have pricing and I don’t know what is the minimum price I can get a 300 mile Silverado with those features, I may pull the trigger on Rivian when I get the call. I can’t see CT offering value (which was it’s main selling point) in a timely manner.

I *think* they have the parallel pack built into it at this point to enable 800v equivalent charging.

Why would they not enable it now? Unless they plan to add this to the list of things they monetize after vehicle is sold.

One interesting thing will be if auto makers follow suit and end of life vehicle updates, like the phone makers.

Saving the planet may be a slogan a business starts with but maximizing profit inevitably will become a matter of survival for any business and that does not alway align with consumer interest. Throwing a perfectly good $300 phone is one thing, doing the same with an $80K Rivian another. Law makers need to get behind this early so you can get your car rolling with third party software and control hardware if motors, battery and body are still functional. My 19 year old ICE truck will probably run for another 10 years and I could take it to any shop to fix pretty much anything. The main thing I expect from my R1S is to get me from A to B. I could care less if Spotify is not working in 5 years. The problem is as business get smarter and more influential regulators can’t keep up.

If you can charge up your shiny new solid state battery pack with another 400 miles of range in less than 10 minutes, why would you need 1000 miles of range?

You are correct. In most cases, the additional weight and cost of the battery can not be justified. But if you are losing half your range while towing and have to unhook the trailer every time you charge, that 1000 mile range start to look vey attractive.

 

[Forager]

The only things I think that will change appreciably across the industry in the next 3 years that would give me pause on buying my R1 would be:

-Ubiquity of vehicles with 800v charging
-Cost of ~400mi range vehicles dropping appreciably
-More options in the mid-size SUV segment (2-row with a large cargo bay) that are appreciably less expensive than the R1S

Coincidentally, I can see this as being one of the next Rivian vehicles: a slightly smaller SUV, with parred down features, but options for longer range (400mi), that even when included, competes with the base R1S on price. In 3 years I think 800v will be standard or an option for most cars, especially for luxury and premium brands.

 

[HJP1]

When my dad was in sales and a customer would ask him "is this the latest I can get" his standard reply was "wait until the day before you die to buy and that will be the latest you can get"..

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