Friend bought ModelY after keeping R1S for a day, and after learning about R2

[kozak79]

It's a completely valid feeling. I have friends who will not buy another brand because of how much they rely on FSD. Rivian will need to offer an FSD alternative to sway those drivers.

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[Zathras]

We have both Teslas (M3, MY, had MS before - and love them) and a R1T Gen2 (love it). Our family friends have only Teslas (M3 and MX). Their kids are blown away with R1's looks, presence. They bought a R1S for one day but returned it next day and immediately purchased and picked up a MY. Their reasons:
- R1 is beautiful, powerful but very big. We all knew that would be the case.
- R2 is likely the best car for them, but they couldn't wait that long.
- But really what killed the Rivian option for them - they didn't realize how much they used the AutoPilot/FSD in their current Teslas that they missed in other cars and in R1S. They also test drove Lucid Gravity (really liked the interior, exterior not so much - like a minivan, but again no autopilot), Benz EQS (felt even it's own company is abandoning it), as well as a Taycan (cramped seats & old tech!).

They realized they are VERY DEPENDENT on the Tesla cars' EASY nature - teens and parents can easily switch between cars for driving, the Tesla mobile app (works so well), zero learning curve moving between M3, MX and now MY...it is very much an Apple experience. Those who are on Apple ecosystems (phones, iCloud storage, MACs, AppleTV etc.) will realize just how difficult it is to move to non-Apples, and this is the SAME EFFECT with Teslas. And the autopilot/FSD (if you are using it today you know...) is a real differentiator. Rivian needs to move real fast on autonomy to have a global true successful competition to Tesla - for themselves as well as for VW.

Pedantic continuity time, Mac is not an acronym.

I can understand their preference for self-driving. And it certainly makes sense to stay in the family ecosystem. From what I've seen, by the time the R2 is in our hands, we'll be in Level 3 pretty soon afterwards, and it's already close without any updates. Not to mention it can be a one-time payment, and that's it. But you have to be sure you're keeping the car more than four years to justify the full payment.

No reason to not consider it a positive experience knowing there can be an alternative in the future worth looking at.

 

[strykerwsu]

That's the thing that completely soured me on the R1S. I drove it, and I couldn't get over how badly it drove on city streets and on the highway. It was ponderous, pitched fore and aft when accelerating and decelerating, and just seemed out of sorts for such a big vehicle.

Then I hopped in the R1T, and all of those complaints melted away. It was a much better driving vehicle compared to the R1S. I just hope that the R2 drives just as well.

I bet R1S had 22's. Once switched out to 20's got a lot closer to my R1T.

 

[Hillbilly]

We have both Teslas (M3, MY, had MS before - and love them) and a R1T Gen2 (love it). Our family friends have only Teslas (M3 and MX). Their kids are blown away with R1's looks, presence. They bought a R1S for one day but returned it next day and immediately purchased and picked up a MY. Their reasons:
- R1 is beautiful, powerful but very big. We all knew that would be the case.
- R2 is likely the best car for them, but they couldn't wait that long.
- But really what killed the Rivian option for them - they didn't realize how much they used the AutoPilot/FSD in their current Teslas that they missed in other cars and in R1S. They also test drove Lucid Gravity (really liked the interior, exterior not so much - like a minivan, but again no autopilot), Benz EQS (felt even it's own company is abandoning it), as well as a Taycan (cramped seats & old tech!).

They realized they are VERY DEPENDENT on the Tesla cars' EASY nature - teens and parents can easily switch between cars for driving, the Tesla mobile app (works so well), zero learning curve moving between M3, MX and now MY...it is very much an Apple experience. Those who are on Apple ecosystems (phones, iCloud storage, MACs, AppleTV etc.) will realize just how difficult it is to move to non-Apples, and this is the SAME EFFECT with Teslas. And the autopilot/FSD (if you are using it today you know...) is a real differentiator. Rivian needs to move real fast on autonomy to have a global true successful competition to Tesla - for themselves as well as for VW.

The definition of anecdotal. You simply can't draw such conclusions based off of a single experience.

 

[LR4toR1S]

Didn't Tesla just announce lane centering and basic adaptive cruise control that nearly every new car in the world has will be discontinued on their cars unless you rent FSD for $99.00 a month?

Bunch of morons that company has.

 

[TexasBob]

We agree with your neighbors that the biggest weakness in the Rivian v Tesla is the ADAS. But there is precisely zero chance I would pay an extra $12,000 over ten years for the privilege of using FSD (seriously people!). And honestly if you love FSD that is a reason to BUY an R2 (non-launch) instead of a Model Y, at least if you are in it for the long haul. R2 has a much more capable tech stack than MY. It is not even close. R2 should be capable of real L3 or L4. No MY being sold today will ever do that. I canceled my R2 reservation (yw) because of range and charging speed, but IMO the autonomy system is its single strongest feature.

 

[rinconryder]

I have the R1T and my wife has the model S. Both are great cars but for different reasons. I think the biggest differentiators are:

efficiency: tesla
Drivers assistance: tesla
Comfort: Rivian
Creativity/fun: Rivian

the software is a draw for me..neither have car play!

 

[Ralph]

The R1 is huge compared to a Model 3 and 20 inches longer than an MX. My guess this played a more significant role than stated. That size difference along with the lack of FSD would indeed be a very big shock.

Not to mention a truck compared to those two?

Doesn’t seem like much of a cross shopping opportunity at all.

 

[Great Gatsby]

We agree with your neighbors that the biggest weakness in the Rivian v Tesla is the ADAS. But there is precisely zero chance I would pay an extra $12,000 over ten years for the privilege of using FSD (seriously people!). And honestly if you love FSD that is a reason to BUY an R2 (non-launch) instead of a Model Y, at least if you are in it for the long haul. R2 has a much more capable tech stack than MY. It is not even close. R2 should be capable of real L3 or L4. No MY being sold today will ever do that. I canceled my R2 reservation (yw) because of range and charging speed, but IMO the autonomy system is its single strongest feature.

Funny enough, me and wife had this same conversation. We choose a Model Y because it has FSD now that is point to point. Rivian promised point to point by end of year, but even then, how good will it be?

R2 with Lidar is the one that will be L3 or L4, not the launch edition coming out now. And even then, it is heavily hinted at that this will be in several years, regulation permitting. So buying an R2 with Lidar is several months from now and then enjoy the benefit of L3/L4 when available will be the years down the line. For all that, we just bough the Model Y and will update to the R2 once those promises are delivered.

I'd say buy the vehicle for what it can do today and not the promise of tomorrow.

All in all though, I will say ADAS are not really that important to new car buyers as they are for Tesla people. I get the point that the OP was trying to make but I don't foresee anyone cross shopping the R2 and MY based off their self-driving capabilities.

 

[rodhx]

The never-ending "R1 is HUGE" complaints always crack me up. I assume these folks generally drive in old cities with terrible parking as Rivians aren't even "full-size". Honda Pilot/Toyota Highland/et al are similarly sized as R1S and the latest Tacoma/Frontier are basically R1T size. The actual full size stuff dwarfs R1.

 

[rodhx]

I bet R1S had 22's. Once switched out to 20's got a lot closer to my R1T.

I agree. Since 2022 I've driven several Rivians with 22s and personally I would never make that choice. There is no comparison in comfort between the 22s and the 20s on my T or the 21s on my wife's S.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

I agree. Since 2022 I've driven several Rivians with 22s and personally I would never make that choice. There is no comparison in comfort between the 22s and the 20s on my T or the 21s on my wife's S.

My complaints about the ride of the R1S on 22s was not about impact harshness of the wheels. It was about the body movements. That really has nothing to do with the wheels and more about the suspension.

For example, it would pitch fore and aft over bumps and highway expansion joints (and when accelerating/braking). Overall body control just seemed poor for a $100,000 vehicle, no matter which drive mode I used. As I said before, the R1T exhibited none of this behavior.

And this is coming from someone who’s experienced the ox cart suspension of our ‘23 Model Y.

 

[Mos Eisley]

Rivian needs to move real fast on autonomy to have a global true successful competition to Tesla - for themselves as well as for VW.

Autonomy is one of those upsell features that get people to pay more for a car... then never use. Example:

*"Only 12% of Tesla’s current fleet actively uses the Full Self-Driving (Supervised) package, according to statements made by Tesla’s CFO on a Q3 earnings call. Data from YipitData further indicates that among owners who trialed the feature, 98% canceled their subscriptions after the trial period ended, with only 2% continuing to use the service."

We all want flying cars some day But I want all manufacturers, Rivian included to put more focus into building dependable, high quality cars and let autonomy happen naturally over time. The whole industry is obsessed, all the reviewers included, with autonomy, when it's one of the least-used features in a car.

 

[Jeremy3292]

FSD is simply a value proposition. Do you want it for the price? It works VERY WELL now. That's the one thing I'm concerned I'll miss going to R2.

I agree Tesla is overdoing being all-in on autonomy though. That future does exist but it's further away than they think. They don't really want to make cars anymore except Robotaxi.

 

[Jeremy3292]

The never-ending "R1 is HUGE" complaints always crack me up. I assume these folks generally drive in old cities with terrible parking as Rivians aren't even "full-size". Honda Pilot/Toyota Highland/et al are similarly sized as R1S and the latest Tacoma/Frontier are basically R1T size. The actual full size stuff dwarfs R1.

Big tall box scary

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