Compared to the R2, what makes the Scout a compelling alternative?

[Husky]

It's not IMO. It looks good and has the option of adding a gasoline engine to extend range to ~500 miles.....but it's also delayed for several years and only imaginary at this point. Also, VW doesn't exactly have a great history of reliability.....(or other "history" for that matter)...

The irony is that by the time they're selling these, the charging infrastructure in the US may be good enough to blunt the need or interest in an EREV.

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[TexasBob]

For me the Traveler (BEV only) has 800V grumble! and is that very nice 6" longer than R2, 10" shorter than R1 no third row. Nice Goldilocks. But Keough is busy pretending to be a new age Luddite because he thinks that wins him points with his "heritage" base (none of whom will buy one of these anyway) so I think he will kill the Autonomy and a bunch of the SDV advantages. I am pretty sure he is on path to bring the same excellent results to Scout that he brought to VW America over the past two decades (declining sales, declining brand value, unionization, the usual).

 

[Husky]

8 years of only driving EVs in our household and never once have I felt like I needed to keep spare electricity with me and we don't even have superchargers in my county. Even right now with a failed PCS that doesn't allow me to charge at home, it's definitely an inconvenience to go charge the next county over, but I don't feel like I'm at risk of running out of juice. I am guessing anyone who thinks this way hasn't actually lived with an EV with decent range (99% of them today)

Sure if you're going off roading in the middle of nowhere (Moab?), there is a risk, but the number of people who do that is VERY low. Some of those people who drive EVs do take a generator with them.

Or if you're driving in northern NH, especially in the winter. You don't have to go out to the desert to have some range anxiety. Even in Concord, our Capital City, there are no DCFC.

 

[babylou]

One thing to keep in mind is that the charging infrastructure build out, from any of the networks, is far from over. Rivian, Tesla, IONNA, and even EA are all building new sites. There will come a time (and it's sooner than you think in my opinion!) where chargers will become as common as gas stations.

I remember my first EV, and there were maybe three chargers between Spokane and Seattle, on the main freeway between them. Now, there's more than that in the small town of Ritzville alone.... And I'm just talking about DCFC/Fast Charging!

and charging speeds are increasing with each new EV.

 

[BigSkies]

The irony is that by the time they're selling these, the charging infrastructure in the US may be good enough to blunt the need or interest in an EREV.

I suspect the reason most of the Scout reservations are for an EREV are simply because there are no EREV alternatives on the market. Not that there's massive demand.

Most people who wants an EV truck will get a Rivian, Silverado or Lightning (used). They won't bother reserving a vehicle that may or may not exist in a few years.

Someone who thinks an EREV is a better solution will put down $100 and wait to see what comes out in a few years.

I think the EREV market will be pretty small. Not zero, but small. The desire for an EREV is mostly due to people that have never driven an EV imagining the charging situation being much worse than it is. It's a real non-issue if 800V becomes a standard expectation across both cars and chargers.

 

[R2 Fan]

True. But the charging network will never be more advanced than the gas station network. At least not in the next couple decades.

With an ICE car, you can bring more range with you. That’s why everyone has extra gas cans with them. You can’t do that with an EV. And even with the extensive gas station network, you need extra gas on hand.

Range extended EVs solve the issue. I can now get all the benefits of an EV and have 700 miles of range and more gas strapped to the car if I need even more range. And I will have all the power I need overnight. Hell, extended range EVs can theoretically go farther off grid than an ICE car.

Just a reminder: The bigger and better the 4 wheel drive (or Extended Range), the further out you get stuck. (humor)

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

Maybe you're referring to one of my posts. I've said it a few times here.

I love my Rivian R1S, and 99% of the time I have zero range anxiety because I rarely drive more than 25 miles a day. In over three years of ownership, I've probably charged away from home only about 10 times, and even then it was usually for less than 30 minutes.

That said, as my son gets older, I want to do more exploring. For example, when I drive from Southern California to Las Vegas, I'd like to spend time exploring desert trails along the way. I want to visit places like Moab, go camping, and venture farther off the beaten path without constantly thinking about where I'm going to charge.

The challenge is that charging infrastructure becomes much more limited once you leave the main highways. Between SoCal and Vegas, fast chargers can be spread out, and if you spend time exploring trails in the desert, you have to keep a close eye on your remaining range. When you get back to pavement, there's still have another 50 to 100 miles to drive before reaching the next Level 3 charger. That makes it harder to relax and enjoy the trail.

When I go off-roading with friends, the nearest trails are typically 1.5 to 3 hours away just to reach the trailhead. That means leaving home at 4:00 AM, driving there, stopping to charge, and then starting.

The Scout is interesting because I think it looks great and offers the Harvester range extender, which supposedly provides up to 500 miles of range. That would eliminate all the concerns I had up top. It also appears to be designed even more for the off-road crowd, which I like. When the Scout comes to market, I probably won't need a third row anymore, but I also don't want something as small as the R2.

That said, who knows? The R1S is serving me well right now, and I still have more than two years and roughly 30,000 miles of warranty remaining. The R2 feels too small for my needs, and the Scout has already been delayed and could easily slip another year or more.

I'm optimistic about the Scout, but we'll have to see how things play out.

Scout is an interesting proposition. Not something I’m into, but I’m sure it will find its place if the tech can be worked out. Of course tech in general waits for no one and I think that battery tech will continue to accelerate. The Chinese are already producing 5-minute charge times, longer-ranges, and more sustainable chemistries and that’s all before the supposed “holy grail” of solid state batteries.

As for Rivian, they need to double down on trailhead, state park, and other adventure site parking with the RAN charging infrastructure. One issue is that it takes forever for utilities to approve these out-of-the-way locations, sometimes years.

I think in the next few years you’ll see a Gen 3 R1 that is leaps and bounds ahead of the current model. Who knows what the future will bring. It’s an interesting time in the automotive world. I hope we’re all fortunate enough to enjoy the ride.

 

[usulio]

Also, Scout is really positioned for aesthetics and off road performance more like a Wrangler, 4runner or Bronco. Rock crawling credentials. Full locking diffs. Heavily modifiable. Will never be called a luxury vehicle.

R1 is positioned like Land Rover and R2 like a Subaru. Both very capable vehicles for what they are, adventure vehicles for sure. But not very modifiable. Heavily advertise luxury features. Daily drivers with ability to go adventure.

I think Scout is hoping to attract that Wrangler feel into the EV world. Become known as the most capable, most extreme. Have 5% of your purchases be people who actually use that and 95% who are into the aesthetic.

 

[SwaziCAR]

I suspect the reason most of the Scout reservations are for an EREV are simply because there are no EREV alternatives on the market. Not that there's massive demand.

I do wonder how many of the EREV reservations are from people (like me!) who incorrectly assumed the formula was 350 battery miles + 150 additional liquid-generated miles, rather than the other way around. If just makes no sense to me that people would rely on a generator to drive a vehicle; why bother?

 

[Jeremy3292]

EREV and similarly plug in hybrids are hilarious to me as a concept. You get the worse of both. Either get an EV or just drive an ICE vehicle.

 

[rfkxyz]

I’d say the sweet spots are conventional/strong/full hybrid (FHEV) and BEV.

Seems any kind of ICE with a plug turns into a Frankenstein car loaded with compromises.

 

[Zathras]

Well, y'all have soundly warned me off the Scout. it's not for me for sure. Glad I read this thread. Less choice anxiety is good.

 

[rfkxyz]

I’ll keep my Scout reservation for the foreseeable future, even though I don’t need/want body-on-frame, locking diff-axles-whatever, or a vehicle that big. Just like the retro-modern design and physical switchgear. But EREV not for me. Still, hope they succeed.

 

[Great Gatsby]

I think the EREV market will be pretty small. Not zero, but small. The desire for an EREV is mostly due to people that have never driven an EV imagining the charging situation being much worse than it is. It's a real non-issue if 800V becomes a standard expectation across both cars and chargers.

This. It is 1,000% this. They are certainly people who could use the harvester for more off the beaten path journeys, but this is not the majority. Everyone I talk to knows I love my EVs and always bring Scout to my attention as if they have solved the problem. What problem? How many people REALLY roadtrip that far or offroad? People have been CONVINCED they need 500 miles of range and that EV charging takes hours. The 350 miles (if accurate) and 800v BEV version is great for MOST people IMO but we have somehow been convinced we need a slower, more compromised, more maintenance intensive vehicle to cater to a trip done a few times a year.

For me, the EREV market is 5 years too late. It would have been a decent bridge between the ICE dominant world and the emergence of newer EVs. With the iX3, EX60 and GLC EV coming stateside, we now have EVs that have 400+ miles of range and can charge under 20 minutes. Outside of those who overland, what does the EREV do for me here other than cut my bathroom stops in half?

Glad Scout decided to hedge their future on customers who have no idea about what they are walking into instead of just being a cheaper Rivian 2.0. Again, if they wanted to, the EREV could have come later but doing it other way around is doing them no favors. Would be shocked to see how many reservations actually convert to sales, specially for the EREV. My real worry is that they might go the way of Lucid of trying to be too many things at once and just fall apart trying to juggle all together.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Once 800v chargers are ubiquitous and we have 10 to 80% in 15 minutes or less on most EV's, that'll be the winning ticket. Probably 2030 or so in my estimation. Even with fast charging, EV's lose a ton a of range at highway speed and when it gets cold so big-ish batteries are still needed. 100 kWh is likely a nice spot for most vehicles (not trucks or big SUVs). I wish Rivian squeezed a few more cells into R2...would've made a big difference going from 88 to 100 kWh but charge times would've suffered and made for "a bad look" when marketing.

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