Canceled my R1S order :-(

[mkg3]

... Just don't buy and move on...

This! People like different things.

There are too many biases and preconceived expectations from people in general.

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[Better Late than Never]

Just curious, why would you even look at a Rivian if a Nissan Leaf meets your needs?

So this is another topic I love on this forum - people telling me that I have no business shopping for a Rivian because I'm not using it for off roading. I think that its reasonable to cross shop a tank and a bicycle if the job to be done is getting from point A to point B. You then break down the other factors, positive and negative, that come with those two options - maneuverability, parking, ammunition, etc.

But that aside, the Leaf would be a stopgas/stopgap car - meaning I could stop buying gas and wait until something else I like long term comes out. For me I have three kids and a large dog so a I felt that Rivian was a great/perfect option. It was priced at 65K or a little more with options, so again, reasonable when I first got my heart set on it. I no longer agree that it's a perfect option with the increased price and the experience driving it for three days - I really feel like we're stilll beta testing this thing, and we'd be even earlier in the stage with the new dual motor variant. So I'm resigned to waiting for something else to come along, maybe the Kia, maybe the Volvo, hopefully an electric 4Runner, but not holding my breath.

I've delayed buying a new car for a few years now while waiting on the R1S and while my 2005 4Runner is doing fine, it's getting old putting $100 in the tank every week while my wife's Model X costs $10 to charge. The Leaf is the cheapest BEV that - I think, I don't know - could fit 3 carseats across and still has some trunk space for a dog or a hockey bag. Model Y is attractive as is the Audi but are more expensive or less practical, respectively and if my only goal is to stop buying gas and still get my kids to school then a $19K 2021 Leaf fits the bill for the short term.

 

[dleepnw]

believe it or not, software does make a difference, a big difference, and it changed the ride quality significantly. so if that was the deal breaker, then its unfortunate because you missed out.

good for me, one less person to wait behind.

 

[BigGreenR1S]

how much did your X7 cost?

New X7 fully loaded out the door with upgraded B@O diamond sound system and dealer discounts and incentives will be about $99k. The R1S as I had optioned with Max battery pack and accessories was $108k…. Sure you can save 10k on the battery with the Rivian, but you can also get a still nicely equipped X7 for under $90k also depending on which boxes you tick.

 

[BigGreenR1S]

believe it or not, software does make a difference, a big difference, and it changed the ride quality significantly. so if that was the deal breaker, then its unfortunate because you missed out.

good for me, one less person to wait behind.

I 100% agree, but really it’s Rivian who missed out on a customer by not putting their best foot forward and bringing a car without an update that came out months ago….

it’s that lack of attention to detail for a new company, like making sure your customer knows you are going to meet some dude in a park for a test drive, that makes me worry.

I’m a tech nerd and am usually not afraid to be an early adopter, but as much as I’ve been drooling over the R1S in fan-boy mode for 18 months, the reality of the vehicle, for me, simply didn’t live up to the overall expectations I’ve been building up all that time.

 

[Mathme]

I too met in that same park in January when I did my First Mile Drive and thought it was strange. The rep at the time said that's where they do their test drives because it's quieter than the service center and people can actually see the vehicles from more of a distance (implying they don't have the space at the service center). I'm not sure, but this may also have something to do with the local business license...the repair center may be listed as a repair center, not a showroom.

When I test drove we did a loop down 680 toward downtown San Jose, and back. mostly on the freeway and a bit on surface streets. Most of the time the truck was in Sport-low suspension setting and I chalked up the rough ride to that. Additionally the person demoing was talking a lot about the sportiness of the truck in general.

When I first got my truck in June, I primarily used AP Soft suspension (20" AT Tires here) and that felt comfortable. Since the last update I primarily use AP Stiff suspension and that feels a bit more like my old Audi SQ7 suspension - firm but not punishing. The only time I put it into "Soft" now is if I'm going to be on the freeway for a while. I make quite a few trips up to the Tahoe Area, and and use AP Soft up to about Placerville, then switch to Sport-Low. I find this gives a good balance of floaty comfort on the freeway bit still allows for some nice handling on the 2-lane roads.

I've found the truck behaves way differently than what the test drive experience was like.

 

[SoCal Rob]

@Better Late than Never , I don’t understand how you got from the innocuous question “Just curious, why would you even look at a Rivian if a Nissan Leaf meets your needs?” asked by @SANZC02 to this:

So this is another topic I love on this forum - people telling me that I have no business shopping for a Rivian because I'm not using it for off roading.

Some people are truly puzzled by people comparing very different vehicles and are curious about the use case to better understand your perspective. If I’m shopping for a car, I generally have most of the major criteria refined and I’m comparing similar vehicles. If I’m NOT shopping for a car and I see something which really strikes me then all logic may go flying out the window.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I 100% agree, but really it’s Rivian who missed out on a customer by not putting their best foot forward and bringing a car without an update that came out months ago….

This is a huge miss to me, too. You only get one chance to make a first impression and all. The update came out about a month ago, but still: every vehicle used for test drives should have the latest updates. Beyond that, Rivian will have to learn how to SELL a vehicle as time goes by and demand tapers.

I’m not in sales, but if I were taking people for test drives in an R1, after they got seats, mirrors, and climate adjusted I’d ask them about their preferences: comfort, sport, economy and then show how the vehicle can be set to accommodate preferences of multiple drivers. Also, maybe they should be doing test drives on the 21” wheels unless a request is made by the person going on the test drive.

When we arrived for our test drive at a service center, I asked for a vehicle with 20” wheels (any style rim) even if we had to wait. That’s because I value ride comfort and off-road capability and the 20” were what we wanted so that’s what we wanted to test with. Of course you can’t do that as easily if there is just a single vehicle at a remote location.

 

[Technowizzard]

Well, I finally got my test drive this weekend and after waiting a long 18 months I'm sad to say the R1S simply didn't live up to my (or my wife's) expectations.

Granted, this is from the perspective of having driven a BMW X7 for 4 years now (and currently) and a full size Range Rover for 5 years before that.

Here are some of the "low-lights":

Rivian gave me an address in San Jose to meet them for the test drive. I was fully expecting this to be Rivan's building, but instead it was a park across the street from a sketchy neighborhood with homeless people wandering around, and project cars parked on front lawns. After driving around in circles wondering how our GPS did us wrong, I finally saw a lone R1S on the side of the road. I hesitantly walked up to it and sure enough, there sits a young kid inside waiting for us. Like, do you think they could have been a little more specific in the e-mail that we'd be meeting some dude in a park in a sketchy neighborhood to go for a test drive....not a great start! Super unprofessional and kind of mind-boggling actually!

Outside walkaround:

- The walk-around of the vehicle was fine. I did notice a few minor panel gap issues but didn't bother pointing them out. It was green (not launch green) and the paint sparkles were pretty nice when the sun hit it. Can't deny it's nice looking from the outside!
- It had the 22" wheels, also nice. It had the Quad package.

Inside walkaround:

- The inside of the vehicle is where we were let down a bit. The way all the seats fold down with a loud *thunk* seems very unrefined for a vehicle this expensive and it's literally the very first thing the guy showed, as if that was a great "feature". "Thunk, thunk, thunk." ?? Every other luxury SUV in this class has electric controls to move the seats or at least a "soft open/close feel" rather than just thunking into place like a basic work pickup truck or something.
- The sound system was pretty decent and got loud but was also kind of unrefined with not much detail. It's too bad they pulled out the Meridian system (which was awesome in the Range Rover).
- No option for rear side window shades (not even manually operated), or a shade for the sunroof.
- Glass sunroof does not open at all...what's the point? We always crack our sunroof when parking outside on a hot day and it makes a huge difference without having to roll the windows down.
- Interior seats were reasonably comfortable front and rear, but my back started sweating immediately while sitting in the back seat in the "vegan leather" which was a surprisingly stiff and clammy vinyl. Back seat is not ventilated either. Putting an adult back there on a hot day with no window shades or sunroof shade seems like it would be a fairly torturous experience.
- No massage seat option.
- There is a display for the climate control in the back that the passenger cannot control (at least that's what the test drive guy said)...what's the point?
- Up front the seats were comfortable but even with the ventilation on (which was uncomfortably cold in the wrong places) my back was still sweating...maybe I was still just too hot from sitting in the back for only 5 minutes. At least your privates will stay cool. ?
- Overall the interior is nice and cleanly designed --the matte wood was nice, but it's still pretty sterile in a Tesla sort of way and also seemed "plasticky" everywhere -- definitely more of an entry level Volvo feel than a car costing $100k. Having come from both BMW and Range Rover, the overall interior quality is just not even on the same level -- this would be a serious downgrade from the X7 or a Range Rover where you are coddled in leather and soft-touch surfaces everywhere! The Sensafin artificial leather on the BMWs doesn't make your back sweat either and the ventilation cools you off evenly. And well, leather is there as an option if you want it.... I was really surprised here, the interior looks much better in pictures than in person where you definitely notice all the corners that were cut.
- No glove box, but hey, there's a sunglass holder under the passenger seat--I guess you could keep your paperwork there...

Test drive:

- Steering input and resistance seemed fine, similar to the BMW, but you could really tell the steering was electric and not "connected to the road" if that makes sense--now I understand why some of the car reviews call the steering "vague"--I don't really agree with that characterization but it's weird not feeling the road under you when you steer.
- I didn't really notice any weird noises as mentioned on the forums or in some reviews.
- It seemed peppy-ish driving around normally, but I felt like you really needed to lay into the gas pedal to give it some oomph, where there is then this latency of nothing happening and then bam, it's almost too much and the front end lifts up like you are about to take off in an airplane. I never really found a happy medium between peppy and sporty and didn't feel a ton of difference in throttle response in sport mode other than the suspension becoming unbearably stiff. I was very surprised how much you had to lay into it to get anything out of it--all of that (3.5s to 60) power seemed either on or off. Coming from BMW, the slightest modulation of the gas pedal with one toe gives you what you expect and you feel like you have all the power available to you at any time, especially in sport mode, which didn't seem to be the case with the Rivian. Granted, I didn't have nearly enough time with it and I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the reviews, so take this one with a grain of salt.
.- Yes, the regenerative braking thing is hard to get used to. It was set to minimum and seemed very aggressive. My wife commented that her foot would get tired from having to be on the accelerator all the time and not being able to coast in traffic when cruise is not on--I didn't think about that but it's a good point. I told her at least she'd save her foot by not having to use the brakes, haha.
- The blinker sound is kind of annoying and yet somehow also not really loud enough either.

Okay, so all of the above gripes aside, keep in mind this was all being extra-critical as in "is this the car we're going to sell the X7 for?" I was literally half-overlooking all of the above until...

The absolute deal-breaker was simply that it rides like a 90's pickup truck on the freeway, bouncing up and down and side to side and front to back. My wife was in the back and immediately said "is it as bumpy up there as it is back here?" Yep, it was. Not only could you feel every single bump in the road but it also had that feeling where after you hit a bump you can't tell if you are still hitting bumps or if it's still bouncing up and down from the first bump. Hands down, absolutely atrocious, unforgivable ride quality for a vehicle this expensive! I asked the guy if it had received the latest update and he said it did not...I have a hard time seeing how a "software update" could fix a suspension that badly dialed in, or how their engineers would even let that thing out of the factory to begin with! Granted, California freeways are tough test, they are pretty atrocious as well, but our neighbor's Subaru Outback rides better than the R1S!

As spec'd with the Max battery pack and a few accessories, I was happily prepared to spend nearly $108,000 on this vehicle sight unseen myself.... Thank god we saw it and drove it in person, because for equal or less money we can get a brand new fully loaded X7 with every option ticked, or another Range Rover, or a Porsche Cayenne, etc. Those 3 vehicles at the same price are literally all in another stratosphere from fit and finish and refinement perspective than this vehicle.

Overall, it seemed like it would be a great vehicle for an adventurous outdoorsy person in their early 30's splurging on their first "nice" car, but I have a hard time seeing how that person is also going to happily spend upwards of $100k on this thing!?

Hopefully this isn't a knock to the thousands of people here who love theirs, it simply just wasn't for us. My advice to anyone waiting for one is if you haven't driven it, be sure to schedule a test drive before pulling the trigger!

Yup, It’s a knock. Traded a BMW for mine and happy ever after. Guess your wife decided for you.

 

[BigGreenR1S]

Oh, speaking of software, I also forgot no SiriusXm and no CarPlay. It’s on cross-country 10 hour trips through the boonies where things like satellite radio are nice…do you *need* it, nope, but for a vehicle that purports to be able to do those things and take you to those places, it’s weird they would leave it out.

 

[emoore]

Oh, speaking of software, I also forgot no SiriusXm and no CarPlay. It’s on cross-country 10 hour trips through the boonies where things like satellite radio are nice…do you *need* it, nope, but for a vehicle that purports to be able to do those things and take you to those places, it’s weird they would leave it out.

I don't find it weird at all that they left it out. Tesla doesn't have CarPlay, GM is dropping it now so it's not out of the ordinary that Rivian doesn't have it. Is BMW still charging a monthly fee for CarPlay or did they make that "included" in the car price?

 

[iBang]

What does it really mean when an audio system lacks details?

I concur with this statement. I am not happy with Meridian sound on my R1T. The sound is muddy and it's just loud with no depth or details.

 

[Hillbilly]

Well, I finally got my test drive this weekend and after waiting a long 18 months I'm sad to say the R1S simply didn't live up to my (or my wife's) expectations.

Granted, this is from the perspective of having driven a BMW X7 for 4 years now (and currently) and a full size Range Rover for 5 years before that.

Here are some of the "low-lights":

Rivian gave me an address in San Jose to meet them for the test drive. I was fully expecting this to be Rivan's building, but instead it was a park across the street from a sketchy neighborhood with homeless people wandering around, and project cars parked on front lawns. After driving around in circles wondering how our GPS did us wrong, I finally saw a lone R1S on the side of the road. I hesitantly walked up to it and sure enough, there sits a young kid inside waiting for us. Like, do you think they could have been a little more specific in the e-mail that we'd be meeting some dude in a park in a sketchy neighborhood to go for a test drive....not a great start! Super unprofessional and kind of mind-boggling actually!

Outside walkaround:

- The walk-around of the vehicle was fine. I did notice a few minor panel gap issues but didn't bother pointing them out. It was green (not launch green) and the paint sparkles were pretty nice when the sun hit it. Can't deny it's nice looking from the outside!
- It had the 22" wheels, also nice. It had the Quad package.

Inside walkaround:

- The inside of the vehicle is where we were let down a bit. The way all the seats fold down with a loud *thunk* seems very unrefined for a vehicle this expensive and it's literally the very first thing the guy showed, as if that was a great "feature". "Thunk, thunk, thunk." ?? Every other luxury SUV in this class has electric controls to move the seats or at least a "soft open/close feel" rather than just thunking into place like a basic work pickup truck or something.
- The sound system was pretty decent and got loud but was also kind of unrefined with not much detail. It's too bad they pulled out the Meridian system (which was awesome in the Range Rover).
- No option for rear side window shades (not even manually operated), or a shade for the sunroof.
- Glass sunroof does not open at all...what's the point? We always crack our sunroof when parking outside on a hot day and it makes a huge difference without having to roll the windows down.
- Interior seats were reasonably comfortable front and rear, but my back started sweating immediately while sitting in the back seat in the "vegan leather" which was a surprisingly stiff and clammy vinyl. Back seat is not ventilated either. Putting an adult back there on a hot day with no window shades or sunroof shade seems like it would be a fairly torturous experience.
- No massage seat option.
- There is a display for the climate control in the back that the passenger cannot control (at least that's what the test drive guy said)...what's the point?
- Up front the seats were comfortable but even with the ventilation on (which was uncomfortably cold in the wrong places) my back was still sweating...maybe I was still just too hot from sitting in the back for only 5 minutes. At least your privates will stay cool. ?
- Overall the interior is nice and cleanly designed --the matte wood was nice, but it's still pretty sterile in a Tesla sort of way and also seemed "plasticky" everywhere -- definitely more of an entry level Volvo feel than a car costing $100k. Having come from both BMW and Range Rover, the overall interior quality is just not even on the same level -- this would be a serious downgrade from the X7 or a Range Rover where you are coddled in leather and soft-touch surfaces everywhere! The Sensafin artificial leather on the BMWs doesn't make your back sweat either and the ventilation cools you off evenly. And well, leather is there as an option if you want it.... I was really surprised here, the interior looks much better in pictures than in person where you definitely notice all the corners that were cut.
- No glove box, but hey, there's a sunglass holder under the passenger seat--I guess you could keep your paperwork there...

Test drive:

- Steering input and resistance seemed fine, similar to the BMW, but you could really tell the steering was electric and not "connected to the road" if that makes sense--now I understand why some of the car reviews call the steering "vague"--I don't really agree with that characterization but it's weird not feeling the road under you when you steer.
- I didn't really notice any weird noises as mentioned on the forums or in some reviews.
- It seemed peppy-ish driving around normally, but I felt like you really needed to lay into the gas pedal to give it some oomph, where there is then this latency of nothing happening and then bam, it's almost too much and the front end lifts up like you are about to take off in an airplane. I never really found a happy medium between peppy and sporty and didn't feel a ton of difference in throttle response in sport mode other than the suspension becoming unbearably stiff. I was very surprised how much you had to lay into it to get anything out of it--all of that (3.5s to 60) power seemed either on or off. Coming from BMW, the slightest modulation of the gas pedal with one toe gives you what you expect and you feel like you have all the power available to you at any time, especially in sport mode, which didn't seem to be the case with the Rivian. Granted, I didn't have nearly enough time with it and I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the reviews, so take this one with a grain of salt.
.- Yes, the regenerative braking thing is hard to get used to. It was set to minimum and seemed very aggressive. My wife commented that her foot would get tired from having to be on the accelerator all the time and not being able to coast in traffic when cruise is not on--I didn't think about that but it's a good point. I told her at least she'd save her foot by not having to use the brakes, haha.
- The blinker sound is kind of annoying and yet somehow also not really loud enough either.

Okay, so all of the above gripes aside, keep in mind this was all being extra-critical as in "is this the car we're going to sell the X7 for?" I was literally half-overlooking all of the above until...

The absolute deal-breaker was simply that it rides like a 90's pickup truck on the freeway, bouncing up and down and side to side and front to back. My wife was in the back and immediately said "is it as bumpy up there as it is back here?" Yep, it was. Not only could you feel every single bump in the road but it also had that feeling where after you hit a bump you can't tell if you are still hitting bumps or if it's still bouncing up and down from the first bump. Hands down, absolutely atrocious, unforgivable ride quality for a vehicle this expensive! I asked the guy if it had received the latest update and he said it did not...I have a hard time seeing how a "software update" could fix a suspension that badly dialed in, or how their engineers would even let that thing out of the factory to begin with! Granted, California freeways are tough test, they are pretty atrocious as well, but our neighbor's Subaru Outback rides better than the R1S!

As spec'd with the Max battery pack and a few accessories, I was happily prepared to spend nearly $108,000 on this vehicle sight unseen myself.... Thank god we saw it and drove it in person, because for equal or less money we can get a brand new fully loaded X7 with every option ticked, or another Range Rover, or a Porsche Cayenne, etc. Those 3 vehicles at the same price are literally all in another stratosphere from fit and finish and refinement perspective than this vehicle.

Overall, it seemed like it would be a great vehicle for an adventurous outdoorsy person in their early 30's splurging on their first "nice" car, but I have a hard time seeing how that person is also going to happily spend upwards of $100k on this thing!?

Hopefully this isn't a knock to the thousands of people here who love theirs, it simply just wasn't for us. My advice to anyone waiting for one is if you haven't driven it, be sure to schedule a test drive before pulling the trigger!

Definitely not the right brand for you. Go get the Mercedes eqs. I hear they're a steal right now.

 

[iBang]

Playing with the EQ improves this. Some of us feel that moving the center of the sound field away from the default to a point behind the front row seats a few inches makes a noticeable improvement as well.

I tried that but it was just a gimmick. What it really needs is more punchy amp and better speakers.

 

[COdogman]

Oh, speaking of software, I also forgot no SiriusXm and no CarPlay. It’s on cross-country 10 hour trips through the boonies where things like satellite radio are nice…do you *need* it, nope, but for a vehicle that purports to be able to do those things and take you to those places, it’s weird they would leave it out.

Add that to the long list of things you knew it didn't have when you wanted one yet still took time to whine about.

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