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emoore

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Saw this in the news about CO increasing EV credit and sounds like they want to make it happen soon.

https://www.cpr.org/2023/03/08/colorado-clean-energy-incentives-proposal/

Among the proposed tax credits:
  • Heat pumps. $3,000 for ground-source heat pumps, $1,500 for air-source heat pumps, and $500 for water heaters with electric heat pumps, with the value of the credits declining in future years.
  • E-bikes. New tax credits for retailers for providing consumers a $800 discount on every qualifying e-bike sale to a Colorado resident.
  • Light-duty EVs. An extension and expansion of the current$2,000 state tax credit, making it worth up to $5,000 through 2025. It would then ramp down to $500 in 2028. The credit would be stackable with existing federal and utility incentives.
    • Additional $2,500 credit for EVs below $30,000
  • Medium- and heavy-duty EVs. An extension and expansion of the current $4,000 medium-duty and $8,000 heavy-duty state tax credits, raising both to $12,000 through 2025.
Not a ton of details in the news article but I believe based on the weight of the R1S (and I think R1T) that my upcoming Rivian R1S would qualify for the $12,000 CO tax credit....assuming it passes as proposed.
I know we are mostly focused on EVs but I love seeing the heat pump rebate. Just got my first heat pump installed earlier this year and itā€™s fantastic. I only have to use natural gas when it gets below 0 which is rare here.
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Aardvark

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Maybe I am reading this wrong, but wouldnā€™t this trade in rebate only be helpful if the car you are trading in is worth less than $6K? Maybe thatā€™s the case anyway for an 12 year old car, but the value to the individual is still only the $6K minus the carā€™s value income and car purchase price restrictions make this worthless for me, but I am interested to see how it works. If I wasnā€™t income restricted and was buying something under $50K, I would be buying the cheapest pre-2011 car that can be registered in CO right about now.
I believe you are correct. I'm not going to dive into the details until the bill is finalized. These early drafts will go through a number of changes before both branches sign off.
I like the fact that there is a focus on used and lower cost EVs. To stimulate widespread adoption, there has to be a focus on all income levels.
The other issue had a setback last year when Gov Polis vetoed the bill requiring new multi-family construction to install charging in a percentage of the parking spots. EVs will hit a plateau until apartment and townhome residents have a way to cheaply charge.
OK, I'm done with my Saturday soapbox. šŸ˜ƒ
 

COdogman

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I believe you are correct. I'm not going to dive into the details until the bill is finalized. These early drafts will go through a number of changes before both branches sign off.
I like the fact that there is a focus on used and lower cost EVs. To stimulate widespread adoption, there has to be a focus on all income levels.
The other issue had a setback last year when Gov Polis vetoed the bill requiring new multi-family construction to install charging in a percentage of the parking spots. EVs will hit a plateau until apartment and townhome residents have a way to cheaply charge.
OK, I'm done with my Saturday soapbox. šŸ˜ƒ
Itā€™s so true. Iā€™m an apartment dweller and itā€™s very rare to find an apartment complex with EV charging. If they do offer charging itā€™s 1-2 level 2 chargers for 200-300 units. There are quite a few EVs owned by people in the complex I live at now. A bunch of Teslas, a couple Volts, and at least 1 Leaf. I would be happy if they just allowed EA or Charge Point to set up a station in the parking lot that anyone could use. I donā€™t expect it to be free.

The good news is there are usually other charging options nearby depending on where you live. Iā€™m looking at moving in April and there are DCFC options within a 15 minute drive of every place Iā€™ve looked at in the Longmont, Erie, Loveland area. So Iā€™m not too worried about charging when my truck finally arrives.
 

Thedude

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My tonneau cover finally broke today after six months of frequent use. No real warning signs, just started sounding a little rough over the last couple of weeks and then bam, panels popped apart and she done.
 

DTown3011

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I just finished my taxes a couple days ago. That $7800 fed credit and $3500 Colorado credit really helped me out. I sold an acre plot in Fairplay, last summer, for a pretty sizable profit. Those credits helped out a lot.

Iā€™m trying to decide if it would be better to bank the refund I got or use it to pay down the R1T. I had originally planned to refi the loan but the rates are too high for that to make sense.
$7800 or $7500?

By the way, just took my truck to Winter Park today for the first time. Posted some thoughts in the thread below, but super impressed with efficiency at ~2.25 mi/kWh and the range estimates were dead on. LOVE THIS TRUCK!

(3) Snow Mode over alpine mountain pass in R1S -- worked well | Page 2 | Rivian Forums - R1T R1S R2 Owners, News, Discussions, RIVN Stock
 

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DTown3011

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I know we are mostly focused on EVs but I love seeing the heat pump rebate. Just got my first heat pump installed earlier this year and itā€™s fantastic. I only have to use natural gas when it gets below 0 which is rare here.
Tell me more about this - I hate all the gas we are using each winter and would love to lower my bill.
 

emoore

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Tell me more about this - I hate all the gas we are using each winter and would love to lower my bill.
Well not sure it will lower your overall bill but a heat pump is just like an AC but in reverse. There is a reversing valve that extracts heat from the outside air and into your house.
 

Sgt Beavis

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$7800 or $7500?

By the way, just took my truck to Winter Park today for the first time. Posted some thoughts in the thread below, but super impressed with efficiency at ~2.25 mi/kWh and the range estimates were dead on. LOVE THIS TRUCK!

(3) Snow Mode over alpine mountain pass in R1S -- worked well | Page 2 | Rivian Forums - R1T R1S R2 Owners, News, Discussions, RIVN Stock
I had only consumed one mug of coffee at the writing of that post. Iā€™m legally held harmless for any inaccuracies.

Yea, the efficiency can be pretty outstanding if you donā€™t put. your right foot into it.
 

zefram47

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Well not sure it will lower your overall bill but a heat pump is just like an AC but in reverse. There is a reversing valve that extracts heat from the outside air and into your house.
More curious about your comment saying you only use gas when it's really cold. Were you able to leave your gas furnace as the emergency heat source rather than changing to electric heat strips? I've joked with the wife that if our AC ever takes a dump we're doing a heat pump, but the house is only 7 years old, so that's unlikely to happen soon. We have a high-efficiency 2-stage gas furnace, but only a single-stage AC at the moment.
 

emoore

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More curious about your comment saying you only use gas when it's really cold. Were you able to leave your gas furnace as the emergency heat source rather than changing to electric heat strips? I've joked with the wife that if our AC ever takes a dump we're doing a heat pump, but the house is only 7 years old, so that's unlikely to happen soon. We have a high-efficiency 2-stage gas furnace, but only a single-stage AC at the moment.
Yep I have a gas furnace as a backup. Donā€™t use it much but itā€™s there if I need it.
 

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Sgt Beavis

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Yep I have a gas furnace as a backup. Donā€™t use it much but itā€™s there if I need it.
Youā€™ve got my attention on this.
Any thoughts on how cold it has to get before you feel the need to use the furnace?
 

emoore

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Youā€™ve got my attention on this.
Any thoughts on how cold it has to get before you feel the need to use the furnace?
Usually around 0 and below before I need to use the furnace. Iā€™ve measured the vent temperature and it drops below 80 when it gets that cold out. My heat pump is a low to mid model so 16 SEER and 8.1 HSPF. More efficient ones will be able to keep hotter air at lower temps.
 

Aardvark

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Youā€™ve got my attention on this.
Any thoughts on how cold it has to get before you feel the need to use the furnace?
We only have minisplit heat pump for our house at 7100' elevation. No gas backup. I've measured 95 deg F air coming out when the outside temp was -25 F.
All this only works if you use the specified "cold climate" models from companies such as Mitsubishi, Daikin, and LG. We have a 12 year old cold climate HyperHeat (H2i) model from Mitsubishi that is rated for 90% of max output at -13 deg F. The newer models are even better: 95% of rated output at -13 deg.
The Habitat for Humanity in Boulder uses these newer Mitsubishi units in their homes. During Winter Storm Uri, the units kept up with no problems.
The units are quiet and comfortable, and most have infrared sensors that scan rooms and move vanes for equal heating through the full space.
Cost calculations are not clear cut but here are some data points:
- per unit of energy, nat gas is still slightly cheaper than electricity. BUT, a heat pump operates at 320% efficiency, while a standard, non-condensing furnace is 80% efficient.
- if you have a 90-98% efficient gas furnace you won't save on fuel costs today moving to a minisplit, unless you can shut down gas service and avoid the monthly connection fee.
- if you heat with propane, moving to mini splits is a no-brainer. Savings are substantial.
- biggest barrier in Colorado is finding an HVAC installer that understands, and is trained in modern variable-compression heat pumps. You will hear a lot of "those things don't work out here." Go to the manufacturers' websites to find trained, authorized installers.
 
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Sgt Beavis

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Usually around 0 and below before I need to use the furnace. Iā€™ve measured the vent temperature and it drops below 80 when it gets that cold out. My heat pump is a low to mid model so 16 SEER and 8.1 HSPF. More efficient ones will be able to keep hotter air at lower temps.
Theyā€™ve gotten so much better than they were in the 90s.


We only have minisplit heat pump for our house at 7100' elevation. No gas backup. I've measured 95 deg F air coming out when the outside temp was -25 F.
All this only works if you use the specified "cold climate" models from companies such as Mitsubishi, Daikin, and LG. We have a 12 year old cold climate HyperHeat (H2i) model from Mitsubishi that is rated for 90% of max output at -13 deg F. The newer models are even better: 95% of rated output at -13 deg.
The Habitat for Humanity in Boulder uses these newer Mitsubishi units in their homes. During Winter Storm Uri, the units kept up with no problems.
The units are quiet and comfortable, and most have infrared sensors that scan rooms and move vanes for equal heating through the full space.
Cost calculations are not clear cut but here are some data points:
- per unit of energy, nat gas is still slightly cheaper than electricity. BUT, a heat pump operates at 320% efficiency, while a standard, non-condensing furnace is 80% efficient.
- if you have a 90-98% efficient gas furnace you won't save on fuel costs today moving to a minisplit, unless you can shut down gas service and avoid the monthly connection fee.
- if you heat with propane, moving to mini splits is a no-brainer. Savings are substantial.
- biggest barrier in Colorado is finding an HVAC installer that understands, and is trained in modern variable-compression heat pumps. You will hear a lot of "those things don't work out here." Go to the manufacturers' websites to find trained, authorized installers.
Are these per room units or whole home HVAC?
Iā€™m asking because Iā€™ve only known Mitsubishi and LG to make per room units. My in-laws, in Hokkaido Japan, have a Mitsubishi.
 

Aardvark

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Are these per room units or whole home HVAC?
Iā€™m asking because Iā€™ve only known Mitsubishi and LG to make per room units. My in-laws, in Hokkaido Japan, have a Mitsubishi.
Sent you a PM, Sgt.
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