Credit/discount for waiting?

[Diddy123]

It's overlooked because it's inaccurate. If you recall, from the time of unveiling in 2018 to the launch of the configurator in Nov 2020, the starting price of the R1T was $69k for the 250mi range model. They then made that the price of the mid-range option in Nov 2020.

No, it isn't. You're either intentionally or unintentionally leaving out a very important step in the pricing progression.

Direct from RJ himself:

Rivian founder and chief executive R.J. Scaringe told Reuters the mid-range R1T pickup truck with a glass sky panel that can change from blue to clear was about $69,000. It can travel 300 miles on a full charge

That was the latest pricing info we had prior to the configurator coming out.

LIDAR - removing this hasn't necessarily changed the product, you can't definitively say it has. Anecdotally, Audi removed LIDAR mid-model year in 2019 from the e Tron and the driver assistance feature is exactly the same between the two (from personal experience).

Because you aren't able to realize the value of this technology, does not mean it has no value.

electrochromatic roof - this was never promised to be part of the base price

Yes it was, see quote above.

It's a frunk, finish level is irrelevant

Not to me it isn't, and it certainly has a cost associated with it for all.

I don't personally ascribe much value to the tailgate features

Irrelevant. It's a valuable feature to many (see the many, many posts of disappointment about it going away), and was an expensive potential feature, but it was not guaranteed to part of the base package.

I'd have to see what they advertised, but Level 3 still is not a certainty at all, so I don't think I ever assumed that was a given and came with the base price of the vehicle.

Fair. The best thing we had to go on was the website telling us that Driver+ features would be included for free. The assumption was that this would include the latest and greatest autonmous driving options. Apparently it's now just a limited set of basic features.

So, they unequivocally have reduced the price, and what they removed along the way is up for everyone to decide its value. For me, I'm paying less than I expected I would for what I'm getting.

You're welcome to think whatever you want, but it certainly is far from unequivocal.

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[thrill]

@Diddy123 The 180 tailgate/powered tailgate was also not intended to be standard, but was a potential $$$ upgrade. Brian Gase said so directly at the 2018 LA Auto Show.

I'd have (and still would) paid extra for it.

 

[Diddy123]

I'd have (and still would) paid extra for it.

Same. Removing it as an option was a sad day.

 

[Dbeglor]

No, it isn't. You're either intentionally or unintentionally leaving out a very important step in the pricing progression.

Direct from RJ himself:


That was the latest pricing info we had prior to the configurator coming out.


Because you aren't able to realize the value of this technology, does not mean it has no value.

When was that quote from, just before the configurator launch? Because that would be the same as what I said. We started to hear rumblings that the pricing would actually be for the mid-range instead of lowest range a couple months before they made it official. What I said is 100% factual, that when they launched in 2018 until at least mid 2020, the pricing was expected to be for the lowest range and then it became the mid-range. It was a point of discussion at the time for that reason.

I am able to realize the value of the technology, but I provided real life examples of how it has little value in today's world. It's future proofing technology that isn't even required to achieve similar outcomes (see Tesla). So again, removing LIDAR has not definitively changed the product they will be offering. It definitely doesn't change the product available today (not required for Level 2), and they may be able to deliver the same Level 3 ADAS without it, just like Tesla is.

 

[3l3c7r1c]

People are mentioning about Tesla. Yes, they increased the price by a lot but other automakers are also making more per unit by reducing the incentives like cashbacks or low APR.

 

[Dbeglor]

People are mentioning about Tesla. Yes, they increased the price by a lot but other automakers are also making more per unit by reducing the incentives like cashbacks or low APR.

That's right, the median price of a new vehicle spiked from $38-39k to $46k in the last year.

 

[Diddy123]

When was that quote from, just before the configurator launch? Because that would be the same as what I said. We started to hear rumblings that the pricing would actually be for the mid-range instead of lowest range a couple months before they made it official. What I said is 100% factual, that when they launched in 2018 until at least mid 2020, the pricing was expected to be for the lowest range and then it became the mid-range. It was a point of discussion at the time for that reason.

I am able to realize the value of the technology, but I provided real life examples of how it has little value in today's world. It's future proofing technology that isn't even required to achieve similar outcomes (see Tesla). So again, removing LIDAR has not definitively changed the product they will be offering. It definitely doesn't change the product available today (not required for Level 2), and they may be able to deliver the same Level 3 ADAS without it, just like Tesla is.

The quote was from early 2020. Not sure how I can make it any clearer, but I'll try. As of February 2020, here are the things that we were informed we would get for $69K:

-300 mile battery
-Electrochromatic Roof
-LIDAR
-Included Spare Tire
-Optional Electric/180 degree tailgate
-Kitted out Luxury Frunk with grocery hooks
-No requirement of a membership to get all features

Everything crossed out has real, tangible value and by eliminating these features is a massive reduction in cost for Rivian. The roof alone is probably $4K+ based on competitive offerings. So the base price is now very slightly lower, but many thousands of dollars of value/cost have been removed.

 

[Dbeglor]

The quote was from early 2020. Not sure how I can make it any clearer, but I'll try. As of February 2020, here are the things that we were informed we would get for $69K:

-300 mile battery
-Electrochromatic Roof
-LIDAR
-Included Spare Tire
-Optional Electric/180 degree tailgate
-Kitted out Luxury Frunk with grocery hooks
-No requirement of a membership to get all features

Everything crossed out has real, tangible value and by eliminating these features is a massive reduction in cost for Rivian. The roof alone is probably $4K+ based on competitive offerings. So the base price remains ~$69K, but many thousands of dollars of value/cost have been removed.

Oh, you mean from the article literally titled:

Electric vehicle maker Rivian: expect prices lower than previously announced

 

[Diddy123]

Oh, you mean from the article literally titled:

Electric vehicle maker Rivian: expect prices lower than previously announced

Yes. Exactly. Glad we're on the same page finally.

 

[Dbeglor]

Yes. Exactly. Glad we're on the same page finally.

Yes, we are. You'll agree that they did in fact reset prices across all ranges from what had been said from 2018 through 2019 (first suggested in that article) and I'll agree that they eliminated some features along the way to compensate for it. The net result of all of it depends on a personal value attributed to each.

 

[Diddy123]

Yes, we are. You'll agree that they did in fact reset prices across all ranges from what had been said from 2018 through 2019 (first suggested in that article) and I'll agree that they eliminated some features along the way to compensate for it. The net result of all of it depends on a personal value attributed to each.

Well that rarely happens on the internet

Only caveat I would add is that there is an actual cost reduction to Rivian by eliminating some of those features. So for buyers, it's personal value. But for Rivian, they're saving real dollars (as it relates to the pricing/features announced in the 2020 article).

 

[Jarico75]

The quote was from early 2020. Not sure how I can make it any clearer, but I'll try. As of February 2020, here are the things that we were informed we would get for $69K:

-300 mile battery
-Electrochromatic Roof
-LIDAR
-Included Spare Tire
-Optional Electric/180 degree tailgate
-Kitted out Luxury Frunk with grocery hooks
-No requirement of a membership to get all features

Everything crossed out has real, tangible value and by eliminating these features is a massive reduction in cost for Rivian. The roof alone is probably $4K+ based on competitive offerings. So the base price is now very slightly lower, but many thousands of dollars of value/cost have been removed.

Sounds like you are frustrated. I would have to say that since the configurator launched in Nov 2020 the items you list above have never been considered included. When I placed my deposit in 2019 I definitely agree all of these items were on the list. What I think is less clear from 2019 is if they were going to be included in the base price of the vehicle or be considered an option.

Even without these features, I am still comparing the R1T to a Model X and the Hummer EV and feel it is a great value for the money. I hope you also still see value in the vehicle and end up purchasing.

I will miss the Roof option and the tailgate option. I didn't even know about Lidar option when I put my deposit down and won't open the frunk enough the care about the finish.

Good Luck!

 

[Diddy123]

Sounds like you are frustrated.

I'm really not. I still think the Rivian is priced fairly. I just don't like when it's suggested that the price hasn't risen and therefore we're getting some special great deal and Rivian is doing us some massive favor. I recognize that things change with time, and we're living it a crazy world. Prices rarely hold firm over multiple years.

But I think it's important to point out what's been removed over time, while keeping the price relatively steady.

 

[Dbeglor]

Well that rarely happens on the internet

Only caveat I would add is that there is an actual cost reduction to Rivian by eliminating some of those features. So for buyers, it's personal value. But for Rivian, they're saving real dollars (as it relates to the pricing/features announced in the 2020 article).

Yes, that's why I pointed out that it's likely how they compensated for resetting the base prices based on range. They made the calculation that it would be better to deliver a certain price per range (this was right after the now faux CT reveal remember), and that most customers would be willing to forgo the things they dropped to hit that level. We'll never know, but the gross profit (loss currently) likely stayed close to the same as before. I don't think they reduced prices and just ate it all.


?

 

[Mcfly Rivian]

I still think the vehicles are a great value for what you get, and that's without factoring in the tax rebate. The DSP program for early preorders is the icing on top. If you sold at the high you got 10k plus discount on your vehicle. If you held who knows maybe it will pay it off by the time some of us take delivery. ?

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