Does the R2 make the Polestar 3 DOA?

[racekarl]

Despite announcing new, lower pricing, I am still having a hard time seeing how the Polestar 3 pencils out compared to the R2.

I understand that the P3 is a larger vehicle, but its extra size does not appear to translate into any greater utility compared to R2; they are both 2-row 5 passenger mid-sized SUVs, and the R2 appears to have more cargo capacity despite its smaller footprint.

R2 has better range when comparing similar powertrains: 330 miles for R2 dual motor AWD large battery vs. 315 for P3 long range dual motor. We don't know much about performance yet, but the P3 does not set a very high bar for a dual motor R2 to clear.

While it's true that the P3 is in theory available now, the current cars are built in China (political opinions aside, this disqualifies it from federal EV incentives), and they have shipped with some features not yet enabled. The US-built cars are supposedly on their way, but they won't necessarily have a huge time-to-market lead on R2.

Then of course there is the price: The base mode dual motor long range P3 is approximately $75,000. While we don't yet know the price of a large battery dual motor R2, it seems possible-to-likely it's around $10,000 cheaper than the P3.

Am I missing something? I suppose different strokes for different folks, but on paper I see a real uphill battle for the P3 when compared with R2.

Oh wait, P3 should get CarPlay, so I guess that's game over in favor of P3

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[brancky3]

I’m not sure if they’re true competitors but I do find it very odd how down on power the polestar is for the price. Less than 500hp is definitely low end for anything over 60k nowadays

 

[Dark-Fx]

Then of course there is the price: The base mode dual motor long range P3 is approximately $75,000. While we don't yet know the price of a large battery dual motor R2, it seems possible-to-likely it's around $10,000 cheaper than the P3.

Am I missing something? I suppose different strokes for different folks, but on paper I see a real uphill battle for the P3 when compared with R2.

I think the P3 is going to be a nicer vehicle with more luxury features, giving up less to hit a particular price point. It has air suspension, R2 doesn't. It has a high end stereo system, you can get it with actual leather, it has an optional air quality monitoring system, etc, but you're going to pay for it.

 

[carsly]

Good question, I think the $75-85K price band is quickly getting saturated and prices have been falling:
- Rivian R1 (not R2)
- Mercedes EQE
- BMW IX (after discounts)
- Volvo EX90 (impending arrival)
- Polestar 3 (impending arrival, maybe)
- Macan EV (Fall 2024)

What am I missing? Oh right, the OG Tesla Model X.

I owned a Polestar 2 and it was an amazing car, but mediocre gadget. Handling, interior comfort, controls, braking, etc. were all better than any Tesla, including my Model S Plaid. BUT the hardware/software integration was mediocre to poor. Sometimes the GPS would just lose the vehicle while driving and couldn't readily be resumed. 12v battery drain, TCAM resets, etc. I sold my P2 with less than 1,500 miles and moved to Teslas.

I think the P3 is about two years too late to market, and that's going to be its biggest downfall. Probably could have had a moment in 2022, it's really uncompetitive at these (reduced) prices in 2024. I had a pre-order, which I cancelled almost exactly a year ago when I felt prices were no longer reasonable - and that was before Tesla cut the Model X to $80K. The seats and interior will be great, but it's going to depreciate worse than a P2 which is horrendous. At least it has Carplay!

As it relates to R2, they don't compete. Polestar 3 is more Cayenne/X5/R1 whereas R2 is a smaller, X3, Macan, Model Y type vehicle at a lower price. IMHO the R2 could eat the Macan EV's lunch - but the Macan will be out in a few months as opposed to two years to never for R2. I don't believe Rivian currently has enough cash, nor can it generate enough cash from operations, to last two years and get R2 into production. Hopefully Rivian can cut deeper, manage pricing on R1 a bit tighter post-April and Peregrine and make it to the launch of R2.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Despite announcing new, lower pricing, I am still having a hard time seeing how the Polestar 3 pencils out compared to the R2.

I understand that the P3 is a larger vehicle, but its extra size does not appear to translate into any greater utility compared to R2; they are both 2-row 5 passenger mid-sized SUVs, and the R2 appears to have more cargo capacity despite its smaller footprint.

R2 has better range when comparing similar powertrains: 330 miles for R2 dual motor AWD large battery vs. 315 for P3 long range dual motor. We don't know much about performance yet, but the P3 does not set a very high bar for a dual motor R2 to clear.

While it's true that the P3 is in theory available now, the current cars are built in China (political opinions aside, this disqualifies it from federal EV incentives), and they have shipped with some features not yet enabled. The US-built cars are supposedly on their way, but they won't necessarily have a huge time-to-market lead on R2.

Then of course there is the price: The base mode dual motor long range P3 is approximately $75,000. While we don't yet know the price of a large battery dual motor R2, it seems possible-to-likely it's around $10,000 cheaper than the P3.

Am I missing something? I suppose different strokes for different folks, but on paper I see a real uphill battle for the P3 when compared with R2.

Oh wait, P3 should get CarPlay, so I guess that's game over in favor of P3

There will be outliers and cross shoppers. But the two cars have completely different core audiences.

 

[COdogman]

They can get $30k more from CarPlay fans alone.

 

[White Shadow]

The P3 starts at like $74K, so it's not exactly in the same price range as the R2. It's also not a boxy look, it's more like other aero-inspired CUVs rather than Rivian's boxy styling, so I'm not so sure many people will cross shop them.

 

[graemebshaw]

I think they appeal to a different customer. Not sure a potential P3 customer weighs price as a primary factor. I think P3 will be cross shopped with the Macan EV. At least that is what I plan to do... sporty and luxury with good enough range and good suspension. Until the R3X comes out...

 

[moosetags]

The Polstar P3 is a pretty nice vehicle, but its price tag does not make it a direct competitor of the R2..

Brian

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

They can get $30k more from CarPlay fans alone.

That's all? Don't you know how many of them they are? and that's why they are soooo so important?!

 

[Killer95Stang]

Good question, I think the $75-85K price band is quickly getting saturated and prices have been falling:
- Rivian R1 (not R2)
- Mercedes EQE
- BMW IX (after discounts)
- Volvo EX90 (impending arrival)
- Polestar 3 (impending arrival, maybe)
- Macan EV (Fall 2024)

What am I missing? Oh right, the OG Tesla Model X.

I owned a Polestar 2 and it was an amazing car, but mediocre gadget. Handling, interior comfort, controls, braking, etc. were all better than any Tesla, including my Model S Plaid. BUT the hardware/software integration was mediocre to poor. Sometimes the GPS would just lose the vehicle while driving and couldn't readily be resumed. 12v battery drain, TCAM resets, etc. I sold my P2 with less than 1,500 miles and moved to Teslas.

I think the P3 is about two years too late to market, and that's going to be its biggest downfall. Probably could have had a moment in 2022, it's really uncompetitive at these (reduced) prices in 2024. I had a pre-order, which I cancelled almost exactly a year ago when I felt prices were no longer reasonable - and that was before Tesla cut the Model X to $80K. The seats and interior will be great, but it's going to depreciate worse than a P2 which is horrendous. At least it has Carplay!

As it relates to R2, they don't compete. Polestar 3 is more Cayenne/X5/R1 whereas R2 is a smaller, X3, Macan, Model Y type vehicle at a lower price. IMHO the R2 could eat the Macan EV's lunch - but the Macan will be out in a few months as opposed to two years to never for R2. I don't believe Rivian currently has enough cash, nor can it generate enough cash from operations, to last two years and get R2 into production. Hopefully Rivian can cut deeper, manage pricing on R1 a bit tighter post-April and Peregrine and make it to the launch of R2.

When the R2 makes it to production, will you finally buy a Rivian? Los Angeles and Orange County are a pretty good indicator of how vehicles will do in general. It has kinda always been that way. Polestar, besides the lower trim model used by rental car companies are almost non-existent here. I figure the 3 will be in the same boat.

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