Gave up on R1S and ordered a 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium today.

[RoadRunner]

One thing 4Runner has that Rivian doesn't and many wished it had is the rear hatch window to roll down. Fisker Ocean has it too.

Its a very useful feature and Rivian could have implemented it but did not....

Agreed, this is a major selling point for the 4Runner for many people. I really liked it on my 1990 4runner which had a fold-down tailgate instead of the rear hatch, but still had the window that rolled down.

Sponsored

 

[Trekkie]

I ended up doing this but with a LR Defender. In NC. Both my orders now say 'delivery pending'. I hadn't heard that they won't deliver without a service center in the state, we don't have any and can't thanks to the NADA bought and paid for state legislature.

Frustrating, Haven't cancelled my orders yet either, but I'd been waffling on doing it because I was so annoyed oct came and went and I still don't have a delivery date.

 

[zefram47]

One thing 4Runner has that Rivian doesn't and many wished it had is the rear hatch window to roll down. Fisker Ocean has it too.

Its a very useful feature and Rivian could have implemented it but did not....

And yet, I literally never use the rear window. The aerodynamics of the truck mean you get all kinds of dirt and exhaust coming in if you drive with it down and I've never had need to roll it down while stationary that wasn't satisfied by just opening the hatch.

 

[zefram47]

The KDSS on the newer 4Runners is actually quite good in improving on-road behavior. My friend has one, and despite it being archaic (not unlike my ‘19 Tundra), it’s very civilized with the potential to be a beast off-road.

KDSS is fantastic for on-road use. Off-road, less so. Above 15 mph the system activates, so if you're on a dirt road that has horizontal ridges across it the suspension winds up effectively stiffer than you'd like and it's pretty uncomfortable. At lower speeds you can tell it's more compliant and you get more articulation, but in areas where you could use higher speeds on a rougher road it's just not. Friend of mine has the same trim 4Runner but without KDSS and in that situation it's night and day different comfort-wise. Pure off-road and climbing over rocks at low speed I'm glad to have the extra articulation though and mine rolls a lot less on-road in the canyons.

 

[tmmcgee]

And yet, I literally never use the rear window. The aerodynamics of the truck mean you get all kinds of dirt and exhaust coming in if you drive with it down and I've never had need to roll it down while stationary that wasn't satisfied by just opening the hatch.

The rear window is for the dogs!

 

[popoga]

The 4Runner is also the definition of a tried and true vehicle, that thing will go forever and do everything. You could do a lot worse.

That said, feel free to send me your pre-march pricing slot for the R1S whenever you want, my DMs are open here

 

[RoadRunner]

Ha! Nice try but that's not happening. I'm hoping that in 2 years Rivian has most of the issues worked out - there seem to be quite a few to be honest, and some fairly major ones reported on here - and they will have built a service center in ABQ or Santa Fe or Pueblo land somewhere nearby, charging stations/networks are much improved, and we can still buy one at the original price. We'll see though, that might be too much to hope for. In the meantime I'll just have to be happy with my brand new, ancient, reliable, capable, underpowered yet somehow also woefully inefficient 4Runner.

 

[RoadRunner]

KDSS is fantastic for on-road use. Off-road, less so. Above 15 mph the system activates, so if you're on a dirt road that has horizontal ridges across it the suspension winds up effectively stiffer than you'd like and it's pretty uncomfortable. At lower speeds you can tell it's more compliant and you get more articulation, but in areas where you could use higher speeds on a rougher road it's just not. Friend of mine has the same trim 4Runner but without KDSS and in that situation it's night and day different comfort-wise. Pure off-road and climbing over rocks at low speed I'm glad to have the extra articulation though and mine rolls a lot less on-road in the canyons.

I was afraid that was the case, sounds like on washboard roads KDSS is worse but otherwise better. I went back and forth about getting it vs not getting it and in the end decided to go for it since only a small percentage of my driving will be on washboard, but it's a bummer that it is noticeably worse in that scenario. I assume airing down will help, and also bigger tires and upgraded suspension which I may end up doing anyway.

 

[Bee]

Talk about polar opposites R1S to 4R! I was just joking with a friend the other day how comically outdated the 4-Runner is both in Powertrain and Design (seriously, less than 20mpg in a mid sized SUV with no power is super bad). New one coming in '24 I heard...

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. The 4-Runner is one of the best off-roading SUVs you can buy. Toyota makes your SUV, it's called a RAV4, something the R1S really has nothing in common with.

 

[Fmc]

One thing 4Runner has that Rivian doesn't and many wished it had is the rear hatch window to roll down. Fisker Ocean has it too.

Its a very useful feature and Rivian could have implemented it but did not....

You may be getting a rear roll down window this week..

 

[Count Orlok]

should have gotten a Grenadier.

 

[RoadRunner]

With the price/specs just leaked on the R2, it looks to me like a direct competitor with the 4Runner, although it is a bit smaller in length and height and will of course have way better performance.

I'll be putting in a reservation for sure. I'm really hoping it will be long enough to sleep in, and I love that it will (hopefully) have the roll down rear window without the exhaust...

Still hoping Rivian can put a service center in NM, I think there will be a lot of demand for the R2 here but they need a real service center if they are going to sell them in any real numbers.

 

[White Shadow]

I used to own a couple of 4Runners and I can't imagine why anyone would buy one today. First, it's an ancient design having been out virtually unchanged since 2010. More importantly, the new 4Runner is just around the corner. It's supposed to look a lot like an SUV version of the new Tacoma. And the ancient, inefficient 5-speed transmission will finally be gone. In my opinion, a 5-speed transmission is just ridiculous these days and I can't believe Toyota still uses one in the 4Runner. But the number one reason I got away from 4Runners is that they have frame rot issues. If you drive them in the snowbelt states, expect frame rot to be an issue. If leasing or only keeping for a couple of years, then no worries....but keeping long term is not a good option.

 

[RoadRunner]

I used to own a couple of 4Runners and I can't imagine why anyone would buy one today. First, it's an ancient design having been out virtually unchanged since 2010. More importantly, the new 4Runner is just around the corner. It's supposed to look a lot like an SUV version of the new Tacoma. And the ancient, inefficient 5-speed transmission will finally be gone. In my opinion, a 5-speed transmission is just ridiculous these days and I can't believe Toyota still uses one in the 4Runner. But the number one reason I got away from 4Runners is that they have frame rot issues. If you drive them in the snowbelt states, expect frame rot to be an issue. If leasing or only keeping for a couple of years, then no worries....but keeping long term is not a good option.

Ancient and inefficient sure, but also extremely reliable and capable. Reliability is huge for me. 4Runners routinely last for 250-300K miles and they hold their value much better than an R1 (or any EV really) as far as I can tell. Living in the southwest I don't see frame rot as something to worry about. And for snowbelt areas there is fluid film etc to prevent that.

This thread is from over a year ago, I took delivery of the 2023 4Runner in Feb 2023 and have had zero issues with it. I wasn't going to wait till 2025, and buy the all new model with the likely first model year issues. The dealer is 15 min away and the only time it's needed to go there was to have the 2nd key programmed, which took all of 30 min.

It's not fast, but it does everything I need it to do, and cost a LOT less than an R1S even with pre-march pricing. I can sleep in it, it handles 4WD roads and snow like a champ, and has all the cargo room I need. And I don't have to worry about charging on road trips in remote areas of NM/CO/UT.

I would have preferred an R1S, but at the time they were not selling them where I live, and while they are now, with the nearest service center 5 hours away I'm not taking that chance.

I will definitely consider trading it for an R2 when they come out, but reliability and having a service center nearby will be a huge part of that decision.

 

[White Shadow]

Ancient and inefficient sure, but also extremely reliable and capable. Reliability is huge for me. 4Runners routinely last for 250-300K miles and they hold their value much better than an R1 (or any EV really) as far as I can tell. Living in the southwest I don't see frame rot as something to worry about. And for snowbelt areas there is fluid film etc to prevent that.

This thread is from over a year ago, I took delivery of the 2023 4Runner in Feb 2023 and have had zero issues with it. I wasn't going to wait till 2025, and buy the all new model with all the The dealer is 15 min away and the only time it's needed to go there was to have the 2nd key programmed, which took all of 30 min.

It's not fast, but it does everything I need it to do, and cost a LOT less than an R1S even with pre-march pricing. I can sleep in it, it handles 4WD roads and snow like a champ, and has all the cargo room I need. And I don't have to worry about charging in remote areas of NM/CO/UT.

I would have preferred an R1S, but at the time they were not selling them where I live, and while they are now, with the nearest service center 5 hours away I'm not taking that chance.

I will definitely consider trading it for an R2 when they come out, but reliability and having a service center nearby will be a huge part of that decision.

Don't get me wrong, I used to drink the Toyota reliability Kool-Aid too. I had two 4Runners and they were good (not great) reliability-wise. My 4th gen 4Runner had recurring issues with the front brake caliper pistons seizing. It was a known issue and affected pretty much every 4Runner driven on salty roads. Calipers were good for two years and then needed to be replaced again and again. I had a few other small issues as well, but nothing too crazy. By far my biggest issue was frame rot. It happened to both of my 4Runners and it was terrible. I even used to powerwash the entire undercarriage every spring to get the salt off, but the frame rot still happened. It started as surface rust and just got worse and worse over the years. I decided to never again buy a 4Runner.

It was at that point that I decided to take a chance on Jeep. Everyone told me I was crazy and that I'd regret buying a Jeep because they were unreliable. But I figured I'd take a chance and buy one, keep it for the 4-year warranty period, and then sell it if it became problematic. Well guess what? I'm on my third Grand Cherokee in a row and I never had a single issue with any of them. My first was an Overland that I kept for exactly 4 years. I only sold it because they came out with a Trailhawk version and I really wanted one. So I had my Trailhawk for two years before I got rearended while stopped at a red light (by another Jeep no less) and that vehicle was a total loss. So I went right out and purchased another 100% identical Trailhawk, even the same color. I've had this one ever since. Never a single issue with it and it's loaded. Has all the offroad stuff, air suspension, 8-speed ZF transmission, it's great on the road and off road as well. It's got so much more technology than the old 4Runner and the reliability has been absolutely perfect. I have zero regrets switching from Toyota to Jeep.

Sponsored