Gen 2 Standard > Large battery pack.

[mpshizzle]

I may have been a little harsh, but there is a point where a ICE/hybrid just makes more sense. Everyone has a different tipping point.

This is true. Very individual

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[Electrified Outdoors]

I think the better question is why do they offer it at all? Standard is a decent amount of range and those that want max range can go with the max pack. Large is much smaller now. I thought I saw somewhere that large was 109 kwh. If that's true, that would be 22 less kwh usable than the outgoing large pack. It certainly makes a much better case for going with the max pack for sure.

If I simply do some math and I divide 420/142 I get 2.957 mi per kwh. If I do the same math and divide the 330 by 2.957 I get 111.599 kwh. So large pack appears to be around 110 kwh usable.

Another interesting tidbit is if I divide the usable capacity of the max pack by 9 modules and then multiply the result by 7 I get 110 kwh. Could it be possible the new large pack is just a Max pack with 2 modules disabled/nerfed via software?

 

[narmstrong79]

I think the better question is why do they offer it at all? Standard is a decent amount of range and those that want max range can go with the max pack. Large is much smaller now. I thought I saw somewhere that large was 109 kwh. If that's true, that would be 22 less kwh usable than the outgoing large pack. It certainly makes a much better case for going with the max pack for sure.

If I simply do some math and I divide 420/142 I get 2.957 mi per kwh. If I do the same math and divide the 330 by 2.957 I get 111.599 kwh. So large pack appears to be around 110 kwh usable.

Another interesting tidbit is if I divide the usable capacity of the max pack by 9 modules and then multiply the result by 7 I get 110 kwh. Could it be possible the new large pack is just a Max pack with 2 modules disabled/nerfed via software?

Yeah, That goes to my original post. I assume its either software locked like the old standard/Standard+ was or they figured a more modular approach where modules are actually removed that would be interesting, But again the the models are more complicated than they need to be. Get rid of the large pack.

the offering would be so much cleaner and less confusing if it was just, one could argue the tri shouldn't exist either.

1. Standard (LFP) - The Daily Commuter
2. Max Dual - The Range / Towing Model
3. Tri Max - The Performance Model
4. Quad Max - The Off-road Model

 

[mpshizzle]

I think the better question is why do they offer it at all?

I ordered a large pack, here are my reasons:

• I want more range than LFP can offer - being able to regularly charge to 100% doesn't really really make sense to me. Day to day I don't need that much range anyway. On a road trip it doesn't help as charging above 80% is so slow that it's not worth the time. So at best 100% charge only benefits me on one leg of a road trip.
• LFP doesn't like cold weather, I live in the rocky mountains. It gets cold
• LFP BMS is finicky and I don't wanna deal with it not knowing SOC
• Max is great but I couldn't justify $7k extra on a truck that's already pushing how much I'm willing to sped.
• Performance Dual isn't available on LFP

Another interesting tidbit is if I divide the usable capacity of the max pack by 9 modules and then multiply the result by 7 I get 110 kwh. Could it be possible the new large pack is just a Max pack with 2 modules disabled/nerfed via software?

I strongly suspect that it is just a software locked Max Pack.. Here's why:

• Both packs are rated for the same 220 KW charging - removing modules would likely limit the max charge rate, so you'd think they'd be different if modules were removed
• Generally speaking GVWR - Curb Weight = Payload. Rivian does't have GVWR or curb weight publicly listed (as far as I can find). But they DO have payload listed. Dual Standard is 1,984 lbs, Dual Large is 1,764 lbs. That makes sense with the Standard battery being smaller/lighter. Dual Max is the same 1,764 lbs. Which seems to indicate that the weight is the same

So yeah... I'm fairly sure Large is just software locked max

 

[narmstrong79]

I ordered a large pack, here are my reasons:

• I want more range than LFP can offer - being able to regularly charge to 100% doesn't really really make sense to me. Day to day I don't need that much range anyway. On a road trip it doesn't help as charging above 80% is so slow that it's not worth the time. So at best 100% charge only benefits me on one leg of a road trip.
• LFP doesn't like cold weather, I live in the rocky mountains. It gets cold
• LFP BMS is finicky and I don't wanna deal with it not knowing SOC
• Max is great but I couldn't justify $7k extra on a truck that's already pushing how much I'm willing to sped.
• Performance Dual isn't available on LFP

I strongly suspect that it is just a software locked Max Pack.. Here's why:

• Both packs are rated for the same 220 KW charging - removing modules would likely limit the max charge rate, so you'd think they'd be different if modules were removed
• Generally speaking GVWR - Curb Weight = Payload. Rivian does't have GVWR or curb weight publicly listed (as far as I can find). But they DO have payload listed. Dual Standard is 1,984 lbs, Dual Large is 1,764 lbs. That makes sense with the Standard battery being smaller/lighter. Dual Max is the same 1,764 lbs. Which seems to indicate that the weight is the same

So yeah... I'm fairly sure Large is just software locked max

While LFP wasn't offered on Gen ! , these are very similar to why i went with the software locked Standard+ gen 1, but that was offered as a way to move inventory before the refresh. That felt like the goldilocks zone for me and my $$ limit. If i was buying today, i would probably make the same decision you made, i don't need the range. But that doesn't stop me from thinking it shouldn't exist. .... if i was Rivian, i would have just priced the dual max closer to where they put the large, not invested in the software limiting process or smaller battery pack and have less SKUs to manage. By not offering the large pack yet anyhow and only building max and standard they are almost doing that. I feel like its more of a market test to see what the demand will be.

 

[CharonPDX]

I agree, but no one who does frequent long trips (>400 miles), especially towing shouldn't buy an EV at all.

Bull.

There are many "trip reports" of people having zero problems towing on long trips frequently.

Probably about 1/3 of the >20,000 miles on my R1T are towing miles. And I have the "worst configuration for road trips" R1 - the Large pack Quad motor with off-road tires. The least efficient model.

Sure, there are people whose use case would make a Rivian a difficult choice, but for many of us, frequent long towing trips are handled just fine with current EVs. So saying "no one" who takes long trips should buy ANY EV is just FUD and absurd.

Edit: Although now I notice your post does have a double negative. I'm assuming that was unintentional. But ironically it does make your statement fine. "No one … shouldn't buy an EV at all." So you're saying everyone should buy only EVs. Got it.

 

[edman007]

I may have been a little harsh, but there is a point where a ICE/hybrid just makes more sense. Everyone has a different tipping point.

There is a point, but 400mi isn't it if you have charging at your destination. That's a single stop on a 6 hour drive, just enough time to empty my bladder. Having an EV isn't changing my time. I'd say the tipping point is really commercial driving (multi-day trips). Though I will say, as someone with kids, my Rivian doesn't need stops as often as my son. I just did a 490mi trip, with a charger at my start point. Did 4 stops, only one stop resulted in me waiting at all for the car to charge, the rest was my son going to the bathroom and my wife trying to squeeze in shopping. And with all that, we had to add two extra stops for bathroom breaks.

 

[narmstrong79]

There is a point, but 400mi isn't it if you have charging at your destination. That's a single stop on a 6 hour drive, just enough time to empty my bladder. Having an EV isn't changing my time. I'd say the tipping point is really commercial driving (multi-day trips). Though I will say, as someone with kids, my Rivian doesn't need stops as often as my son. I just did a 490mi trip, with a charger at my start point. Did 4 stops, only one stop resulted in me waiting at all for the car to charge, the rest was my son going to the bathroom and my wife trying to squeeze in shopping. And with all that, we had to add two extra stops for bathroom breaks.

I've done the 6+hr (350 mile) in my standard+ (est 300 miles) R1S once, a couple times in a extended Range Mach-E (290-ish) and a couple times in a standard range (220) Mach-E.. It's very doable, EA stations are getting a little better and now with Tesla.. Super easy.

I can easily do, and am planning to do a couple more, road trips in my R1S. Needing to charge more than 2 maybe 3 times is a little much for me. If I was someone who did long distance all the time I wouldn't get an EV. A standard range is more than enough range for most people.

 

[Tango001]

I have a Gen 1 dual performance standard+ (software locked NMC large) while happy I added the performance, I spend 90% of my time in all purpose, as I assume most would.

I have one of the first dual performance max pack R1S’s delivered pre price hike pricing so getting dual non performance wasn’t allowed. I have put it in sport mode to unlock performance mode maybe 5 times to show friends 0-60 since we got it in November. I plan on getting an R1T too and definitely plan on just getting dual, it’s still stupid fast.

 

[narmstrong79]

I have one of the first dual performance max pack R1S’s delivered pre price hike pricing so getting dual non performance wasn’t allowed. I have put it in sport mode to unlock performance mode maybe 5 times to show friends 0-60 since we got it in November. I plan on getting an R1T too and definitely plan on just getting dual, it’s still stupid fast.

Yeah, is kinda stupid that 0-60 times are the measure, it's such a pissing contest. Non performance dual motor is more than enough for the majority of people.

 

[emoore]

I've done the 6+hr (350 mile) in my standard+ (est 300 miles) R1S once, a couple times in a extended Range Mach-E (290-ish) and a couple times in a standard range (220) Mach-E.. It's very doable, EA stations are getting a little better and now with Tesla.. Super easy.

I can easily do, and am planning to do a couple more, road trips in my R1S. Needing to charge more than 2 maybe 3 times is a little much for me. If I was someone who did long distance all the time I wouldn't get an EV. A standard range is more than enough range for most people.

You can go 700 miles just needing to charge twice to get to your destination. I’ve done it.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

I ordered a large pack, here are my reasons:

• I want more range than LFP can offer - being able to regularly charge to 100% doesn't really really make sense to me. Day to day I don't need that much range anyway. On a road trip it doesn't help as charging above 80% is so slow that it's not worth the time. So at best 100% charge only benefits me on one leg of a road trip.
• LFP doesn't like cold weather, I live in the rocky mountains. It gets cold
• LFP BMS is finicky and I don't wanna deal with it not knowing SOC
• Max is great but I couldn't justify $7k extra on a truck that's already pushing how much I'm willing to sped.
• Performance Dual isn't available on LFP

I strongly suspect that it is just a software locked Max Pack.. Here's why:

• Both packs are rated for the same 220 KW charging - removing modules would likely limit the max charge rate, so you'd think they'd be different if modules were removed
• Generally speaking GVWR - Curb Weight = Payload. Rivian does't have GVWR or curb weight publicly listed (as far as I can find). But they DO have payload listed. Dual Standard is 1,984 lbs, Dual Large is 1,764 lbs. That makes sense with the Standard battery being smaller/lighter. Dual Max is the same 1,764 lbs. Which seems to indicate that the weight is the same

So yeah... I'm fairly sure Large is just software locked max

Yeah that's a good point. If it is a software locked max pack then one should also be able to charge that to 100% daily with no worries of accelerated degradation. So you would be able to get the full rated range on the daily. Also, would the top charge really be that slow? If my calcs are correct a 100% charge on a large pack would only be about 78% of the gross pack capacity (again assuming a software limited max pack).

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Yeah, That goes to my original post. I assume its either software locked like the old standard/Standard+ was or they figured a more modular approach where modules are actually removed that would be interesting, But again the the models are more complicated than they need to be. Get rid of the large pack.

the offering would be so much cleaner and less confusing if it was just, one could argue the tri shouldn't exist either.

1. Standard (LFP) - The Daily Commuter
2. Max Dual - The Range / Towing Model
3. Tri Max - The Performance Model
4. Quad Max - The Off-road Model

I wonder how many quads they will sell. The Tri already start at six figures once you factor in destination. Quad is likely to be well north of that. At least 110-120k.

If I lease a gen 2 it will be a dual performance max pack most likely. Like you say I'm looking for range/towing performance and 3.4sec 0-60 is still pretty darn fast for this truck.

 

[beatle]

Further, Rivian is really discouraging people from springing for the higher performance models by locking the extra thrust behind sport mode. I have a PDM right now but I feel like I'd have been better off saving a few bucks and getting a regular DM since I rarely put the truck in sport mode.

 

[OneForTheRoad]

I may have missed something, but wasn't there a thread about Rivian saying to only charge the LFP to 85%? I know theoretically LFP can do 100% daily, but has that been confirmed by Rivian?

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