I changed my mind on Max Pack

[WhisperPickle]

It’s really kind of amusing how triggered some folks seem to be about the idea of someone else choosing to spend their own money to get the max pack.

I’m neither triggered nor do I care how people spend their money. But people seem to be seriously misinformed about how the max pack’s theoretical benefits actually translate to real world usage. And I figure it can’t hurt to point that out before they spend the extra $10k.

if someone goes in fully informed and getting the max pack brings a smile to their face, fantastic. Do your thing. But if people think it’s going to save them time on road trips and I figure it can’t hurt to point to real world tests/examples that show differently.

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[Yossarian]

This winter, I drove an ICE vehicle from Eastern PA to Banff, AB. After IL, my route took me through WI, MN and ND before crossing the border into Saskatchewan to Banff in Alberta. Finding a gas station was not terribly tough, but they were few and far between on some of the more remote stretches. Prudence dictated keeping a close eye on the map and the gas gauge, something that is mostly unnecessary for most long-distance ICE travel. There appeared to be very little in the way of electric charging along the route I took, and I suspect that in an EV, the same trip would be quite difficult, even with meticulous planning.

All of this is the long way of saying that we in North America are not quite there when it comes to EV's and long-distance driving. Things are changing, and quite rapidly, but my take is that trips to the more remote parts of the US, and certainly Canada, will be challenging for some time to come. This doesn't mean they are impossible, but they probably are impractical if you have time constraints.

The corollary to the above is that the charging challenge is identical in either a LR or Max Rivian. As @240vPlug notes, the Max provides "about an 8% increase in usable battery capacity over large pack." That slight increase in range could prove quite valuable in a trip to the more remote places on our continent. Or not. As he also sagely observes "Whether it's worth the upcharge is subjective."

 

[rbrak29]

Worth it or not got mine at fairly good price. 2023 R1T Max Pack DM was 89K, after 10K Rivian discount, 79K, with Rivian 5K trade in credit and $3750 tax credit, $70250. No more left in the Rivian Shop.

 

[jtrex35]

So Max obviously gives you the boost in miles when leaving home at 100% or if its a long road trip after leaving a hotel w L2 charging. But I've found the Max has given me more real miles with less charge stops. For instance, 10-80% large will take approx 42-44 min to give you approx 192-193 miles, Max in 10-80% will take 43-45 min and will add approx 260 miles. Lets say you only want to add 150 miles of range in the max on a charge stop, that only takes 26 min, or maybe you want 193 miles like in the Large pack 10-80% those same 193 miles will only take about 33 minutes in the MAX! All this was well plotted out via motorsport unplugged youtube channel. I've found these figures to be correct. I had a large and most recently a max where I completed a 2000 mile road trip.

 

[hroussel]

You can also use ABRP and check the expected travel times for a specific build (with and without max pack). ABRP is fairly precise in my experience.

I have done so with many destinations I already went to in the past, or planning to go to. For a reasonably long trip, like 1000km (600mi), there is on average 15 mins difference in total traveling time between the two (I was using R1T DM with large and max pack). It's up to you then to decide whether 15 mins, over 10 hours of travel, is worth it.

 

[DB-EV]

Exactly. The "insane" adjective is thrown around so often on boards I can't stop laughing when I read it. My favorite sports board is even worse. Somebody has a use case different from theirs and it is insanity????‍

Sports is one step removed from politics. And to the beholder, it could feel like it has a more direct impact on life.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

I don't want to get into a debate about this. Many folks think its not worth it, I personally can't justify the additional charge...however some folks find value in it and that's all that matters. There is value here in the larger capacity...how much value is subjective.

According to the EPA, Large has a usable capacity of 131 kwh and max has a usable capacity of 142 kwh. We have a difference of 11 kwh. 131/142 = 0.9225352112676056 . So we round down to 92% and that is where i come up with an 8% difference. If you want to be conservative round up to 93% and its a 7% difference.

In the end all that matters is if the person buying it finds value in it. The facts are all well known at this point right?

To me its similar to buying that cutting edge CPU or GPU ...it costs significantly more to have the absolute best/fastest/highest model of anything.

We could get into a similar debate about something like PPF. For me it was worth it to do full PPF because I can rest a little easier at night. If I look at it from a strictly financial/analytical POV its not worth it because very little of that expense is recoverable on resale.

 

[BigSkies]

You can also use ABRP and check the expected travel times for a specific build (with and without max pack). ABRP is fairly precise in my experience.

I have done so with many destinations I already went to in the past, or planning to go to. For a reasonably long trip, like 1000km (600mi), there is on average 15 mins difference in total traveling time between the two (I was using R1T DM with large and max pack). It's up to you then to decide whether 15 mins, over 10 hours of travel, is worth it.

I agree completely.

I'm in the camp of it's a lot of money for low value. But that doesn't mean some people won't get value out of it.

Set up a Large pack vehicle in ABRP and see what your road trips look like. Then set up a Max Pack vehicle in ABRP and do the same. Take screenshots or make a spreadsheet of the outputs, because ABRP gets a little squirly when changing vehicles.

Practical factors that I've seen planning trips in the West:

1. The Wyoming/Montana areas do have chargers spread far apart. You frequently have to charge well above 80% to hit the next charger. The max pack would shave a few minutes on a charge in this situation, just because you get more kWh in the battery before you hit the 80% mark. It's not a huge difference, but it is something.
2. It's not uncommon to run into a 60kW charger in more remote places. You'll be charging just enough to get to the next stop regardless of which battery pack you choose. The max pack buys you nothing here.
3. L2 chargers you find at hotels or around town are commonly 6.6kW. You're not getting to 100% charge on a 6.6kW charger if you roll into town with 5% battery late in the evening and charge overnight. It's a good boost, but you're not filling up either a large or max pack in ~10-12 hours. I've made this mistake in planning before. Assume you're not getting to 100% charge ever after you leave home.

I could see a few potential situations where the max pack could create some options that would be difficult otherwise. But those would be rare and very route dependent.

 

[bike123.com]

I think it does. But not sure by how much.

Marginal please check actual results

 

[Treebeard]

No. The test you can find on YouTube that supposedly shows the max pack charging faster is flawed because it only compares miles added per hour of charge and not kw….but that difference was likely down to difference in the calcs for the dual motor vs the quad.

The max pack has the exact same capacity as the large pack - therefore voltage is the same so it’s not charging any faster.

Isn’t the max pack 185 kWh vs 135 kWh?

 

[Treebeard]

This is all correct - but again, the battery is the same size and same voltage. See below:

"Instead of adding more cells or modules to an existing battery pack, which would add more mass, our engineers developed a proprietary battery management system that optimizes and increases the usable battery energy from a new version of our 2170 battery cell with advanced chemistry that allows for both higher energy density and higher absolute energy. The total installed capacity for Max Pack is 149kWh."

Looks to be a little larger.

No, it doesn’t if you manage your charging correctly. To take advantage of the increased capacity you have to charge it beyond 80%. See the Out of Spec tests. You are making the amount of time spent on the road/charging significantly longer.

80% of the max pack is more than 80% of the large pack.

No. The test you can find on YouTube that supposedly shows the max pack charging faster is flawed because it only compares miles added per hour of charge and not kw….but that difference was likely down to difference in the calcs for the dual motor vs the quad.

The max pack has the exact same capacity as the large pack - therefore voltage is the same so it’s not charging any faster.

 

[Dustyshades]

Looking forward to the follow up post from OP in a month “I changed my mind on Max Pack [again]”

 

[Epicloop]

For instance, 10-80% large will take approx 42-44 min to give you approx 192-193 miles, Max in 10-80% will take 43-45 min and will add approx 260 miles

Will be checking that out, hard to believe 67miles out of 7kwh(70% of 10kwh) .

Isn’t the max pack 185 kWh vs 135 kWh?

149kwh vs 135kwh, it was never 185 initial claim was 180I can't believe how many media outlets are still getting it wrong.

 

[jtrex35]

Will be checking that out, hard to believe 67miles out of 7kwh(70% of 10kwh) .

149kwh vs 135kwh, it was never 185 initial claim was 180I can't believe how many media outlets are still getting it wrong.

Its the faster charging curve at a lower SOC with the Max vs the large which would be at a higher SOC tapering sooner adding less kw

 

[Vantripping]

Its the faster charging curve at a lower SOC with the Max vs the large which would be at a higher SOC tapering sooner adding less kw

Agree. This is what I’ve found to be a benefit with the Max pack. The different cells and larger capacity of each allows for faster charging rates. When side by side with other Rivians at RAN my Max pack charged at a higher charge rate by 5-10 kW. I didn’t measure actual numbers but was accepting a higher charging rate. I’ve also experienced the roughly 50 mile greater range as marketed. Whether these are of value is all up to each of us and our use cases, but I’ve experienced faster charging rates and range that are greater than SoC videos and others have said.

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