LFP Battery in Cold Climate

[hmw]

with 92kwh in the Standard pack but running the risk of a sudden drop to 0% with the LFP you can't really trip below 20% in freezing/sub-freezing conditions meaning available battery capacity is really 74kwh BUT you can't access all the capacity in cold weather so shave some more off, at least 5% of the 92kwh. So now you're down to 69kwh if you start at 100% charge. If your battery is at ambient temps of low single digits like it is now in NJ you'd be very, very lucky to make 100 miles, more like 80-85 miles on a full charge before needing to stop and charge or 40 miles out and 40 miles back on a trip. What's that? maybe an hour of driving time each way?

Something short of ideal methinks for a $80K SUV/truck.

That's exactly what happened on my NJ to PA trip. It was 148 miles each way and I had to stop and supercharge once on the first trip and then twice (so supercharge to 85% when starting and once between) on the return journey.

Because the truck wouldn't supercharge faster than 70 kW I was stuck waiting in 0F temps - not to mention I had to hard reboot after it threw a vehicle error when supercharging. The next time I used the supercharger it just stopped charging after some time and I had to unplug the charger and replug it a few times - the app didnt warn me or say anything. My colleagues who did the trip with me in their Teslas were shaking their heads

If Rivian was so concerned that people wouldnt buy the models with the larger pack, they could have built a 125 kW LFP pack and restricted it to say 95 kWh. Then when it gets cold the pack has 30 kWh reserve and can provide the stated capacity regardless of weather.

Don't get me wrong, I love this car but I am not a blind fanboy that I can overlook some very obvious shortcomings - and the fact that Rivian is completely silent on LFP's range degradation etc

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[evthree]

That's exactly what happened on my NJ to PA trip. It was 148 miles each way and I had to stop and supercharge once on the first trip and then twice (so supercharge to 85% when starting and once between) on the return journey.

Because the truck wouldn't supercharge faster than 70 kW I was stuck waiting in 0F temps - not to mention I had to hard reboot after it threw a vehicle error when supercharging. The next time I used the supercharger it just stopped charging after some time and I had to unplug the charger and replug it a few times - the app didnt warn me or say anything. My colleagues who did the trip with me in their Teslas were shaking their heads

If Rivian was so concerned that people wouldnt buy the models with the larger pack, they could have built a 125 kW LFP pack and restricted it to say 95 kWh. Then when it gets cold the pack has 30 kWh reserve and can provide the stated capacity regardless of weather.

Don't get me wrong, I love this car but I am not a blind fanboy that I can overlook some very obvious shortcomings - and the fact that Rivian is completely silent on LFP's range degradation etc

Curious how long you supercharged and how long you preconditioned ahead of time? Wondering if LFP packs max at a much lower charge speed in the winter because the car cannot get the battery temp up? I maxed at 60 kW the one time I supercharged (20 minutes of charging after 15-20 minutes of preconditioning) this winter. Had great experience in the summer (225 kW peak) on superchargers.

 

[Jedimaster109]

with 92kwh in the Standard pack but running the risk of a sudden drop to 0% with the LFP you can't really trip below 20% in freezing/sub-freezing conditions meaning available battery capacity is really 74kwh BUT you can't access all the capacity in cold weather so shave some more off, at least 5% of the 92kwh. So now you're down to 69kwh if you start at 100% charge. If your battery is at ambient temps of low single digits like it is now in NJ you'd be very, very lucky to make 100 miles, more like 80-85 miles on a full charge before needing to stop and charge or 40 miles out and 40 miles back on a trip. What's that? maybe an hour of driving time each way?

Something short of ideal methinks for a $80K SUV/truck.

And that nullifies the ability to charge to 100% regularly with LFP, if you are worried about the BMS under 20% especially in the cold. In theory it works to have a smaller pack if you regularly use all of it.

 

[bfilippo]

I owned a Dual Standard for 18 months in Maine and put 20k miles on it, had a MYLR before that and put 35k miles on it before trading in.

Here is what I said in another thread. As someone who likely drove more miles in a very cold area with a Dual Standard than most, I am happy to dig in further on this, but as stated, the two biggest issues I see here are: opacity from Rivian on this critical problem AND the LFP being the only major component produced in China by a 3rd party outside of Rivian’s purview, which is totally antithetical to their entire operating philosophy (native app builds, motors, all other battery packs, etc).


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Agreed. I had one of the 1st Gen2 LFP R1T's delivered in the Northeast in September 24' and the team at Rivian did not have any real awareness of the major drops in range in cold temps and at that time we didn't even have climate schedule yet! When I had an issue with the truck (no fault of the truck per my recent post), the replacement team did finally accept that perhaps the standard pack was not sufficient for downeast Maine, and I should likely just get the Max pack. This is unfortunate, as a significant population for potential Rivian buyers outside of CA is the Northeast and Canada. If the Standard pack loses 30%+ for 40% of the year, and you are getting an average of 175mi at 100% charge, that starts being worse than a Chevy Bolt from 7 years ago. This on top of the update issue that just occurred in the middle of winter where the standard pack could not calibrate under 20% properly, leading to many threads on here of frustration.

I am really glad that Rivian started offering a lower cost model, and as Kyle from OOS points out helpfully in his video, the Dual Standard is an amazing vehicle and offers enough for the vast majority of drivers out there. Unfortunately, the lack of clarity and refinement (and arguably the only major component still being sourced by a 3rd party based in China) for the standard battery pack makes the offering less compelling compared to similarly priced options...

 

[evthree]

I owned a Dual Standard for 18 months in Maine and put 20k miles on it, had a MYLR before that and put 35k miles on it before trading in.

Here is what I said in another thread. As someone who likely drove more miles in a very cold area with a Dual Standard than most, I am happy to dig in further on this, but as stated, the two biggest issues I see here are: opacity from Rivian on this critical problem AND the LFP being the only major component produced in China by a 3rd party outside of Rivian’s purview, which is totally antithetical to their entire operating philosophy (native app builds, motors, all other battery packs, etc).


——////——////—-////—////—

Agreed. I had one of the 1st Gen2 LFP R1T's delivered in the Northeast in September 24' and the team at Rivian did not have any real awareness of the major drops in range in cold temps and at that time we didn't even have climate schedule yet! When I had an issue with the truck (no fault of the truck per my recent post), the replacement team did finally accept that perhaps the standard pack was not sufficient for downeast Maine, and I should likely just get the Max pack. This is unfortunate, as a significant population for potential Rivian buyers outside of CA is the Northeast and Canada. If the Standard pack loses 30%+ for 40% of the year, and you are getting an average of 175mi at 100% charge, that starts being worse than a Chevy Bolt from 7 years ago. This on top of the update issue that just occurred in the middle of winter where the standard pack could not calibrate under 20% properly, leading to many threads on here of frustration.

I am really glad that Rivian started offering a lower cost model, and as Kyle from OOS points out helpfully in his video, the Dual Standard is an amazing vehicle and offers enough for the vast majority of drivers out there. Unfortunately, the lack of clarity and refinement (and arguably the only major component still being sourced by a 3rd party based in China) for the standard battery pack makes the offering less compelling compared to similarly priced options...

Helpful - thanks. I have a Carvana offer that would take me out just under what I paid last June (terrific 2Q25 incentives), which I am very tempted to take. That said, struggling to find a replacement that will be enjoyable to drive and somewhat economically justifiable. EV9 has terrible software and storage, IONIQ 9 does not have a seven seat configuration in higher trims (and both EV9 and IONIQ 9 are capped at 125 kW on Superchargers), Grand Highlander Hybrid is imminently practical but BORING, MYLR seven seater is what I came from but just too small as my three kiddos (and their friends) get bigger.

Have been on the verge of clicking the Order button on a Dual Max, but spending $100K on a (quickly) depreciating asset…

First world problems!

 

[bfilippo]

Helpful - thanks. I have a Carvana offer that would take me out just under what I paid last June (terrific 2Q25 incentives), which I am very tempted to take. That said, struggling to find a replacement that will be enjoyable to drive and somewhat economically justifiable. EV9 has terrible software and storage, IONIQ 9 does not have a seven seat configuration in higher trims (and both EV9 and IONIQ 9 are capped at 125 kW on Superchargers), Grand Highlander Hybrid is imminently practical but BORING, MYLR seven seater is what I came from but just too small as my three kiddos (and their friends) get bigger.

Have been on the verge of clicking the Order button on a Dual Max, but spending $100K on a (quickly) depreciating asset…

First world problems!

I was in same boat with the MYLR, got too small, and I pulled the trigger on the Max after all my issues with the Standard. Best of luck!

 

[hmw]

I’m​

Curious how long you supercharged and how long you preconditioned ahead of time? Wondering if LFP packs max at a much lower charge speed in the winter because the car cannot get the battery temp up? I maxed at 60 kW the one time I supercharged (20 minutes of charging after 15-20 minutes of preconditioning) this winter. Had great experience in the summer (225 kW peak) on superchargers.

On the trip back I preconditioned for 15 -20 mins, drove to the charger which was ~ 10 miles away and then checked the battery temps (~ 50f). Connected to a V4 charger, saw charge rates of 50 kW and the car threw a 'Vehicle Error' and would not let me unplug the cable. It let go only after a hard reboot. After that did some more preconditioning, got the battery to 60f and started charging again - this time with more charging errors but at least no 'Vehicle Error'. At some point it started charging but I noticed that it wouldn't exceed 60 kW - decided to precondition more, hop onto another charger stall and then saw 80 kW - battery was about 90f. Waited till it then got to 80% SOC

All this while I am freezing my butt off in the cold

Have you have seen > 200 kW with the LFP pack? If so, I feel a bit better, hoping the < 100 kW is due to the cold. But what temps does the pack need to achieve to get > 100 kW? Isn't 90f sufficient? Or is the car somehow monitoring ambient temps and using that to throttle DCFC ?

 

[Budman]

I’m​

On the trip back I preconditioned for 15 -20 mins and then checked the battery temps (~ 50f). Then connected to a V4 charger and the car threw a 'Vehicle Error' and would not let me unplug the cable. It let go only after a hard reboot. After that did some more preconditioning, got the battery to 60f and started charging again - this time with more charging errors but at least no 'Vehicle Error'. At some point it started charging but I noticed that it wouldn't exceed 50 kW - decided to precondition more, hop onto another charger stall and then saw 80 kW - battery was about 90f

All this while I am freezing my butt off in the cold

Have you have seen > 200 kW with the LFP pack? If so, I feel a bit better, hoping the < 100 kW is due to the cold. But what temps does the pack need to achieve to get > 100 kW? Isn't 90f sufficient? Or is the car somehow monitoring ambient temps and using that to throttle DCFC ?

My experience with the NMC max pack is that 90F is about the sweet spot for battery temperature.

I'll also say I've seen more "speed limited by charger" issues with Tesla superchargers than other providers. Maybe try another provider just to see what happens??

 

[evthree]

I’m​

On the trip back I preconditioned for 15 -20 mins and then checked the battery temps (~ 50f). Then connected to a V4 charger and the car threw a 'Vehicle Error' and would not let me unplug the cable. It let go only after a hard reboot. After that did some more preconditioning, got the battery to 60f and started charging again - this time with more charging errors but at least no 'Vehicle Error'. At some point it started charging but I noticed that it wouldn't exceed 50 kW - decided to precondition more, hop onto another charger stall and then saw 80 kW - battery was about 90f

All this while I am freezing my butt off in the cold

Have you have seen > 200 kW with the LFP pack? If so, I feel a bit better, hoping the < 100 kW is due to the cold. But what temps does the pack need to achieve to get > 100 kW? Isn't 90f sufficient? Or is the car somehow monitoring ambient temps and using that to throttle DCFC ?

I experienced charging speeds similar to my past Tesla experience (>200kW) on a road trip (all Superchargers) last summer. More charging time based on the lower per mile efficiency of the R1S, but charging experience was great. Did learn to keep HVAC off while charging (temps were high 80s with humidity), and Supercharger cable temp did occasionally lead to charger derate (limited me to ~125 kW as I recall due to charging cable temp) that I have read about elsewhere.

As someone who used to love a once yearly skiing road trip to CO (1,000 miles) with my kiddos in my past Teslas, I am trying to understand what I should expect with the LFP in a similar situation. My one cold weather supercharging experience was not promising. I would not attempt a long, winter road trip unless I learned that my one supercharging experience was an anomaly.

 

[Jedimaster109]

I experienced charging speeds similar to my past Tesla experience (>200kW) on a road trip (all Superchargers) last summer. More charging time based on the lower per mile efficiency of the R1S, but charging experience was great. Did learn to keep HVAC off while charging (temps were high 80s with humidity), and Supercharger cable temp did occasionally lead to charger derate (limited me to ~125 kW as I recall due to charging cable temp) that I have read about elsewhere.

As someone who used to love a once yearly skiing road trip to CO (1,000 miles) with my kiddos in my past Teslas, I am trying to understand what I should expect with the LFP in a similar situation. My one cold weather supercharging experience was not promising. I would not attempt a long, winter road trip unless I learned that my one supercharging experience was an anomaly.

It may only be an issue on your first charging stop, once the battery temps is high you shouldn’t have an issue, especially when you string multiple fast charging stops together.

 

[hmw]

My experience with the NMC max pack is that 90F is about the sweet spot for battery temperature.

I'll also say I've seen more "speed limited by charger" issues with Tesla superchargers than other providers. Maybe try another provider just to see what happens??

I tried an IONNA charger on the trip and it wouldn't even work. Tried at my local supercharger yesterday, put it as the destination after preconditioning the battery - made sure the battery temps were 90f and when I started charging it would not exceed 85 kW.

I don't have anything other than Tesla V3 DCFC near me. No IONNA, RAN or Electrify America. It's an EV charging desert except for the Tesla SC stalls. There's an 'Applegreen Electric' which sounds dubious so haven't even considered it.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

EV9 has terrible software and storage

EV9 software is fine, but is supplemented by CarPlay. Good to go there. Frunk size is a joke. Back storage is really good. Battery does fine in the winter. You can charge at 250kw+ anywhere outside of Tesla that offers it. And you can get a nice one used for $45-50k.

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