Mixed Signals from Governments on EV Proliferation

[Ventura]

Oregon has a sliding scale with fuel efficient vehicles paying more - the better the mpg (and less gas they buy), the more they pay. EVs are at the top of the scale and pay the most.
Gas and EV owners have a "by the mile" option if they install a device in their vehicle to track usage. Break even is about 5K miles per year.

The registration numbers below are for 2 years. New vehicles pay for 4 years of registration - double what is listed when first registering.

They apply the same scale to Title fees:

That's not a very good system, at least as it pertains to ICE vehicles. EV's are heavy, we can assume they will cause their share of road damage and that this will go up with weight (decline with efficiency). For ICE vehicles, those getting 40mpg or higher are light and likely contribute little to road damage relative to those with lower mpg. I'm not sure you need to recoup money lost on gas sales for efficient ICE vehicles in the same way you need to for EVs

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[Sgt Beavis]

I agree that EVers should not get off scott free, although I have always wondered what percentage of the motor fuel tax actually goes into maintaining the roadways.

I just feel that at this point in time governmental entities should refrain from making EV's less to attractive the average new car buyer.

Brian

Keep in mind that Ohio isn the 6th largest Ethanol producing state. EVs are a challenge to that revenue source. There are zero reasons for Ohio to not add taxes to EVs. Frankly, I’m surprised it isn’t higher.

 

[godfodder0901]

Here is my take. EVs shouldn't get off the hook and get to use state roads for free while ICE vehicle owners pay for the up keep of those roads.

Especially when you factor in the fact that EVs typically weigh significantly more than their ICE counterparts, thereby causing more wear and tear to the road surface.

 

[emoore]

Especially when you factor in the fact that EVs typically weigh significantly more than their ICE counterparts, thereby causing more wear and tear to the road surface.

I don't think this is true for passenger vehicles. Sure an 18 wheeler semi will cause more damage than a passenger car but an R1T vs an ICE F150 is going be negligible.

 

[thrill]

I don't think this is true for passenger vehicles. Sure an 18 wheeler semi will cause more damage than a passenger car but an R1T vs an ICE F150 is going be negligible.

It's going to depend on the tire contact area, so multi-axle vehicles with fatter tires might actually cause less damage than heavy bicycles. Assuming a 5000 lb F-150 and a 7000 lb R1T were both wearing the same galoshes at the same speed on the same type of pavement in the same condition, then the heavier vehicle has an exponential effect greater than squared, generally around 4 but as much as 8 depending on the study. Here's some light reading Effects of Truck Size and Weights on Highway Infrastructure and Operations: A Synthesis Report(FHWA/TX-0-2122-1) (utexas.edu)

 

[cardad]

I was thinking that governments at all levels were offering incentives for the purchase and use of electric vehicles. Then I read an article saying that the State of Ohio has enacted a $225 per year additional license tag fee for electric vehicles.

I realize that government will eventually want to make up lost revenues from the highway fuel taxes. I am somewhat surprised that the State of Ohio has chosen to gouge EV users right out of the box. I now wonder if other states will follow suit. With EV's on the cusp of going mainstream, governments need to suck-up their greed, at least in the short term.

Brian

Every state will be a bit different but you can bet that as revenue forecasts dip they will need to figure out new ways of collecting money. Most states don’t have enough EVs as it is for this to be even marginally beneficial in any meaningful way. And a lot of times there are conflicting interests at work. Texas has a $2500 EV rebate yet they have not adjusted their dealer laws to allow Tesla or Rivian to sell directly. It will take time for these things to play out. It’s all experimental at this stage.

 

[SeaGeo]

One thing people aren't (generally) considering is that the federal gas tax hasn't been adjusted (even for inflation) since the early 90s. It's significantly under funded. Some States have tried to adjust for that, hence you see such large differences in State fuel taxes. I think most DOTs would prefer to have a direct mileage based evaluation, but people freak out about privacy for mileage. Raising gas taxes is generally considered a regressive tax, and (unfortunately) generally unpopular. EVs are an opportunity to for States to try and pick up the slack from the Federal government. Georgia's approach seems a bit excessive, but realistically there should be additional fees with EVs both due to wear as others pointed out, and as a long term means to try and fix transportation funding that isn't quite as politically problematic.

Additionally there is concern associated with the impacts of ADAS supported driving systems (particularly LiDar based) causing more wear and tear in the roadway by driving in literally the same tracks every time. Conceptually manufacturers would help DOTs by imposing some randomization into a large driving window to spread the wear out across the travel way similar to how normal humans do.

 

[emoore]

I don't mind paying a few hundred extra to cover road fees. I'd just like Colorado to get rid to their expensive use tax. I'm expecting my R1T will be over $2k a year for registration fees for the first few years. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Atlrivian]

Additionally there is concern associated with the impacts of ADAS supported driving systems (particularly LiDar based) causing more wear and tear in the roadway by driving in literally the same tracks every time. Conceptually manufacturers would help DOTs by imposing some randomization into a large driving window to spread the wear out across the travel way similar to how normal humans do.

I have never heard this before, but conceptually it makes sense. If a single one of my state legislators in Georgia could articulate this with facts and figures backing it up, I would GLADLY pay these fees without complaint.

Unfortunately, I think it more often comes down to: "How can we stick it to the libs?" Conversely, it is extremely unpopular with the base to raise the gas tax when the average lifted truck in GA gets 8mpg.

 

[SeaGeo]

I have never heard this before, but conceptually it makes sense. If a single one of my state legislators in Georgia could articulate this with facts and figures backing it up, I would GLADLY pay these fees without complaint.

Unfortunately, I think it more often comes down to: "How can we stick it to the libs?" Conversely, it is extremely unpopular with the base to raise the gas tax when the average lifted truck in GA gets 8mpg.

Sticking it to the library also be part of the math down there. Lol.

What I referenced with regard to repeated lane use is a topic that's been under research for a few years. We were discussing it pre covid in a design committee I'm on. That one seems pretty easy to address conceptually to me. Though I'm sure it's harder than it sounds to implement. And who knows if manufacturers give a shit.

 

[Zoidz]

For PA, the R1T would be registered as a Class 3 truck based on weight, which is $177 per year. We don't have a state EV tax credit, but we don't have an EV registration surcharge either. Our gas tax is a cool $0.576/gal, second only to California for highest in the country. Oh and when Biden was here for a visit to Pittsburgh for an infrastructure talk, a bridge collapsed in the city; so good on PA for using the gas tax funds for road fixins. ?‍

In general the PA government is pretty head-in-the-sand about EVs. So much so that Tesla is the only auto manufacturer permitted to sell direct to consumer and only by exception to an existing regulation.

Maybe I should look into one of them Tessler Siber Trucks.

At this point, I wouldn't say they are head in the sand, I think they just can't agree or decide what to do. They did a study last year and came up with the following options. Both an EV mileage fee and an EV fee.

"The commission separated its recommendations into three separate phases, encompassing short-, medium- and long-term solutions. Funding options available in the short-term and near-term include a mileage-based user fee for electric vehicles, increased vehicle registration fees, an electric vehicle fee, corridor and managed lane tolling, a vehicle lease fee and a package delivery fee. "

 

[Eeyore]

What I referenced with regard to repeated lane use is a topic that's been under research for a few years. We were discussing it pre covid in a design committee I'm on. That one seems pretty easy to address conceptually to me. Though I'm sure it's harder than it sounds to implement. And who knows if manufacturers give a shit.

One possible solution would be to re-stripe the lanes 1 ft. to the left, then back to the right 2 ft. to even out the wear.

Currently, I'm opposed to a per mile tax because I typically drive 24K+ a year, but once I retire, I'd be more agreeable as I expect my annual milage to decrease significantly.

 

[Riviot]

Currently, I'm opposed to a per mile tax because I typically drive 24K+ a year, but once I retire, I'd be more agreeable as I expect my annual milage to decrease significantly.

What a selfish and Baby Boomer way to look at it. ??‍

It really comes down to equality vs equity. Gasoline/diesel taxes were equal before EVs, and mileage taxes make EVs more equal to them. Vehicular property taxes, like South Carolina's model, are more equitable. If you can afford an $80k vehicle, you can afford to pay more. Perhaps a blend of mileage and property value would make ends meet?

I do love the irony of South Carolina's progressive tax system in such a red state. I do miss Chucktown.

 

[ads75]

I am against a mileage tax because I frequently take a toll road to work. My commute is 36 miles each way, and 32 of those miles are on a toll road (Pennsylvania turnpike), which is already basically a mileage tax. I shouldn't have to pay mileage twice for the same drive. Get rid of the tolls, then the mileage tax makes more sense.

 

[moosetags]

This Forum is comprised generally of EV enthusiasts. We will make the switch in spite of the of the use tax situation. I am concerned that governmental greed will take over and make choosing an EV economically undesirable. This rush to tax EV's can only set back the movement to eliminate ICE vehicles.

Brian

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