"New" 12V Battery Jump Start process update from Rivian

[Trandall]

This 12V battery drain issue is a mess and Rivian needs to #1 acknowledge it's a mess, #2 issue some better direction on how to recover from dead 12V and #3 come up with a fix where 12V don't die unless HV pack reaches 0% SOC and then finally the 12V is drained as well as send notifications to alert if 12V is having health issues/ not charging and at risk before it reaches a level where the truck is fully bricked.
The fact that the the truck can brick quickly to where it's unrecoverable without a tow and Rivian service appointment without user error or warning of any kind is unacceptable.

Sponsored

 

[dradam]

Very interesting solution wonder if it works? Might be worth grabbing a couple and putting them in one of those under-car locker boxes, if you can find some steel to stick it to that is...haha.

Very interesting, if you have the opportunity to test this in a rivian please let us know. While it might get us in the door/ frunk I doubt it would allow the car to drive?

 

[edman007]

Do you think the capacitor vs 2nd battery is then just cost saving? Or maybe just 50% less likely for a battery failure?

Also wondering as mine ages, how long until proactive replacement of the 12v batteries will be appropriate, or will the truck give some warning that the 12v should be replaced, so it doesn't die in some parking structure where removal is extra challenging, etc....?

It's reliability. I think the R1 has two batteries because they couldn't fit a full sized battery. I think the batteries they have are still kinda small. I think the 12V issues are because they are driving the 12V batteries too hard and it wears them out quickly. Capacitors don't have the wear problem, so it's likely an attempt to address the ware issue and extend 12V life.

 

[Tdfster]

We have an R1S, received 9/15/23, VIN ~20k. It has a single 12V battery, no capacitor. (I checked when the mobile service tech came to replace the center console to remove the camp speaker).

Last week, while I was out of country for work, my wife got the dreaded "service 12V battery" light. She called Rivian and they remotely checked and said everything was fine. Light stayed off a few days after they had her do a hard reset. The morning after I got home, immediately on unplugging the wall charger, we got the "service 12V battery light". Since it had been plugged in all night and was at 70%, and church was only 2 miles away, we drove to church. Afterwards, the light was off. We drove home, ran an errand, no issues. Since it was at 65%, the kids were out of school Mon for Presidents Day, we left it unplugged, in the garage, and it is bricked.

I noticed the next morning when I checked the app from work. (Current screenshot below) Rivian asked all kinds of questions about the temperature, etc. they are supposedly sending a mobile service tech today (Friday). We are fortunate that we have other vehicles that we can wait a week! I tried using a trickle charger through the jump start wires in the rear to see if we could unlock the doors and maybe get some things out - no luck. (Charger says "bad battery ")

So the software update that gives the early warning might have worked, possibly, but Rivian remote service said everything was ok... Not sure what to make of that.

Can't recommend owning a Rivian unless you also have other vehicles, unfortunately.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I tried using a trickle charger through the jump start wires in the rear to see if we could unlock the doors and maybe get some things out - no luck. (Charger says "bad battery ")

You can't trickle charge through the jump wires and have to use a charger that's capable of overriding when it doesn't detect a battery.

The reason Rivian says 30A minimum is they have a significant amount of passive drain, and you are going to fight it to get the vehicle into a state where it can flip the contactors on to charge the battery on its own. I've had the same experience trying to recover my Bolt EV from a dead 12V battery. My 5A charger didn't put enough back in after 4 hours to turn the thing on. An actual jump after that was immediately successful. I should have just started there.

 

[Tdfster]

You can't trickle charge through the jump wires and have to use a charger that's capable of overriding when it doesn't detect a battery.

The reason Rivian says 30A minimum is they have a significant amount of passive drain, and you are going to fight it to get the vehicle into a state where it can flip the contactors on to charge the battery on its own. I've had the same experience trying to recover my Bolt EV from a dead 12V battery. My 5A charger didn't put enough back in after 4 hours to turn the thing on. An actual jump after that was immediately successful. I should have just started there.

Anyone tried jumping it with an ICE vehicle to unlock the doors?

Mobile service will be here in 2 hrs, so I'll ask if they recommend for/against.

 

[Ted SD]

Anyone tried jumping it with an ICE vehicle to unlock the doors?

Mobile service will be here in 2 hrs, so I'll ask if they recommend for/against.

So what happened? What did the mobile tech say?

Thanks

 

[Tdfster]

So what happened? What did the mobile tech say?

Thanks

Mobile tech replaced the 12V battery in under an hour. He said he prefers accessing by removing the 6 fasteners in the driver wheel well and unlatching the frunk manually rather than trying to jump it via the rear cables. (Which is what we did).

I asked about jumping from my Tacoma. He said he wasn't sure if it would work or if it was recommended or not. I haven't heard back on that yet. He was newer.

Our R1S only has 1 battery. They are not yet commercially available, so it seems a service call is currently the only option for replacement.

 

[Ted SD]

Mobile tech replaced the 12V battery in under an hour. He said he prefers accessing by removing the 6 fasteners in the driver wheel well and unlatching the frunk manually rather than trying to jump it via the rear cables. (Which is what we did).

I asked about jumping from my Tacoma. He said he wasn't sure if it would work or if it was recommended or not. I haven't heard back on that yet. He was newer.

Our R1S only has 1 battery. They are not yet commercially available, so it seems a service call is currently the only option for replacement.

Thanks. I am also reading a current thread on 12v battery service that has a video link comment re a Li battery replacement.

Here is that video (thanks to the original poster of this link):

 

[Tdfster]

Thanks. I am also reading a current thread on 12v battery service that has a video link comment re a Li battery replacement.

Here is that video (thanks to the original poster of this link):

Thanks for sharing. Can you share the other thread you mentioned?

One thing this video did NOT show, that the technician was explicit in mentioning to me and doing, was disconnecting the HV safety. He did this after removing the negative terminal (before touching the positives) and then before connecting the negative again. Disconnect circled in picture below.

 

[Aardvark]

Thanks for sharing. Can you share the other thread you mentioned?

One thing this video did NOT show, that the technician was explicit in mentioning to me and doing, was disconnecting the HV safety. He did this after removing the negative terminal (before touching the positives) and then before connecting the negative again. Disconnect circled in picture below.

I had the same concern watching the video. In our Teslas, HV disconnect was always a key step in the 12 V battery swap process.

 

[HaveBlue]

Mobile tech replaced the 12V battery in under an hour. He said he prefers accessing by removing the 6 fasteners in the driver wheel well and unlatching the frunk manually rather than trying to jump it via the rear cables. (Which is what we did).

I asked about jumping from my Tacoma. He said he wasn't sure if it would work or if it was recommended or not. I haven't heard back on that yet. He was newer.

Our R1S only has 1 battery. They are not yet commercially available, so it seems a service call is currently the only option for replacement.

It's an 18ah AGM battery. Pretty common.

 

[Tlaz]

Looks like Rivian finally updated the jump-starting guide to indicate how to jump the vehicle including the secondary battery.

Will be curious if people are able to recover their dead vehicle following the guide now. Present in the tow-operators guide and owner's guide.

https://rivian.com/support/article/r1-tow-operator-guide

The terminals on my R1S secondary battery do not look like the terminals in the diagram (see photo). Should I assume that the battery was just installed 180 degrees rotated from what I'm seeing here? I'm assuming if I'm jumping this battery, The red cables are + and black cables are - and I should go by that system vs. the diagram in the manual. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[PhatDaddy]

Looks like Rivian finally updated the jump-starting guide to indicate how to jump the vehicle including the secondary battery.

Will be curious if people are able to recover their dead vehicle following the guide now. Present in the tow-operators guide and owner's guide.

https://rivian.com/support/article/r1-tow-operator-guide

OK... well I've read ALL of these comments and feedback. And I'm neither a mechanic nor an electrician. But I am still really not clear on the SOLUTION should I have a 12V battery failure. So let me ask a few questions, make a few comments, and hopefully get a few really clear answers:

1. It appears to me that there is NO SUCH THING as 'JUMP STARTING' a Rivian that has a 12V battery failure, at least by my 'JUMP START' definition (as the terminology seems to have always been used for ICE vehicles). In other words there is no reasonable way - via another vehicle's battery, a big high-end 'jump box', and certainly not via a small rechargeable jump box - to 'JUMP' start the Rivian... i.e. touch some wires and press a button and the car 'starts' and is back online and ready to drive (like with an ICE vehicle). Correct?

2. It appears that all the 'JUMP START' instructions are really about how to RECHARGE (over some variable period of of time) the Rivian 12V battery system. And, once the 12V battery reaches some minimal level of charge, then you MAY/WILL be able to use a key fob or phone or keycard to (a) open a door (b) open the frunk (c) open the HV charge port... although not necessarily immediately be able to drive the vehicle (I guess depending upon the HV battery SOC). Correct?

3. That 'RECHARGE' scenario can be performed - again, over a period of time - only with a power source that can maintain 30A for whatever the (variable, depending?) period of time is it takes to bring the 12V battery up to some minimal level.

4. And that 'RECHARGE' can be done via the rear 'battery ports' behind the panel near the trailer hitch? Correct? Although someone said the Rivian mobil tech said not to use that method? And even if that method CAN be used to RECHARGE (not 'JUMP') the 12V battery, it can only do that if the charger being used has some type of 'override' capability (unclear - what should I look for if purchasing a charger?) to detect (?) a 'no battery attached' situation (?). The other (apparently more acceptable per the mobil tech?) RECHARGE method is to get the frunk open (which would require the emergency frunk release accessed via tools and fasteners in the wheel well) so that you could connect directly to the 12V battery.

Do I have all this right? If so - if there is NO REAL JUMP START method to quickly start my EV... or maybe also no way to quickly access the interior or storage areas - well, that just sucks. I love my truck and just have to hope the 12V battery never fails. Yeah... right.
Please correct/clarify my thinking where possible. Thanks.

 

[Dark-Fx]

OK... well I've read ALL of these comments and feedback. And I'm neither a mechanic nor an electrician. But I am still really not clear on the SOLUTION should I have a 12V battery failure. So let me ask a few questions, make a few comments, and hopefully get a few really clear answers:

1. It appears to me that there is NO SUCH THING as 'JUMP STARTING' a Rivian that has a 12V battery failure, at least by my 'JUMP START' definition (as the terminology seems to have always been used for ICE vehicles). In other words there is no reasonable way - via another vehicle's battery, a big high-end 'jump box', and certainly not via a small rechargeable jump box - to 'JUMP' start the Rivian... i.e. touch some wires and press a button and the car 'starts' and is back online and ready to drive (like with an ICE vehicle). Correct?

2. It appears that all the 'JUMP START' instructions are really about how to RECHARGE (over some variable period of of time) the Rivian 12V battery system. And, once the 12V battery reaches some minimal level of charge, then you MAY/WILL be able to use a key fob or phone or keycard to (a) open a door (b) open the frunk (c) open the HV charge port... although not necessarily immediately be able to drive the vehicle (I guess depending upon the HV battery SOC). Correct?

3. That 'RECHARGE' scenario can be performed - again, over a period of time - only with a power source that can maintain 30A for whatever the (variable, depending?) period of time is it takes to bring the 12V battery up to some minimal level.

4. And that 'RECHARGE' can be done via the rear 'battery ports' behind the panel near the trailer hitch? Correct? Although someone said the Rivian mobil tech said not to use that method? And even if that method CAN be used to RECHARGE (not 'JUMP') the 12V battery, it can only do that if the charger being used has some type of 'override' capability (unclear - what should I look for if purchasing a charger?) to detect (?) a 'no battery attached' situation (?). The other (apparently more acceptable per the mobil tech?) RECHARGE method is to get the frunk open (which would require the emergency frunk release accessed via tools and fasteners in the wheel well so that you could connect directly to the 12V battery.

Do I have all this right? If so - if there is NO REAL JUMP START method to quickly start my EV - well, that just sucks. I love my truck and just have to hope the 12V battery never fails. Yeah... right.
Please correct/clarify my thinking where possible. Thanks.

The jumper wires in the back of the vehicle seem to strictly be designed to be able to get access to the batteries in the frunk to do a complete jump. I think the requirement for 30A is because that's the power needed to energize all of the necessary electronics to be able to open the frunk.

Rivian has done a lot of work on making the vehicles more recoverable/resilient against 12V failures, but the process is definitely more complicated than it is in other vehicles because of the multiple 12V energy sources.

I was going to document recovering on my R1T when I had gotten the warning about the 12V batteries needing to be serviced a couple months ago, but my truck never actually died before I took it into service.

Sponsored