New Tesla Model Y L launching this weekend

[shandering]

No it’s not. It’s level 2 otherwise Tesla wouldn’t call it “supervised” self driving. You seem to have way more confidence than Tesla does. It’s not even L3, much less L4.

Again learn about the levels of autonomy. Supervision is allowed under L4

It says it right there in SAE J3016 section 8.2

Levels of autonomy are not performance metrics.

The car above is operating with no driver and no steering wheel/pedals. Even the robotaxis in austin are operating this way. Tesla claims this is level 4 (which they don't need to do since it's already level 4)

If you are missing a feature of driving then FSD is considered L2. If you are reasonably not missing a feature of driving (and only supervising safety) then that would be L4.

FSD v13 would have been L2 because it was missing features of driving and the car did not execute minimum risk maneuvers. V14 can reasonably not be called level 2 since it is an attempt to drive in every scenario and it performs minimum risk maneuvers, identifies accidents, etc.

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[blipit]

FSD license was included forever on Juniper LE. If Model Y L is $55k after LE, then I’ll renege my comments.

The LE comes with following included...

Grey interior - $1000
Cosmic silver paint - $2000
20in wheels - $2000
Tow hitch - $1000
12 month FSD - $1188
12 month supercharging - ?

$7188 value + whatever you value 12 months of free supercharging. This is the reasoning behind the Launch Ed pricing.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

All of your posts are the same thing: just telling everyone on a Rivian forum how good Tesla is.

They're almost like a bot. Like there's no talking with, it's all like conditional response output.

 

[Zorg]

I get viciously car sick in the 2nd row of every model Y Uber......the 3rd row might kill me.

It's because of the accelerator mapping. All the Tesla I drove had the same issue. It feels like the mapping is very linear such that any pressure of the accelerator launches the car. Rivian has a more exponential curve which makes the car smoother to drive.

 

[Zorg]

maybe first learn about the levels of autonomy? FSD is more/less level 4 at this point

Levels of autonomy allow for supervision. What makes a system level 4 is the intent to drive around and perform the entire DDT. You need to identify failures, perform minimum risk maneuvers, etc. which FSD does at this point

What makes FSD level 2 is only a loophole in which SAE allows manufacturers to define their own level. .That is certainly an abuse of how the standard is written as someone only reasonably supervising safety is L4



They have built more than 1000 of these and if they are building a new car from the ground up, you can see the bare minimum that is required. Looks like camera cleaning is required.

They're certainly not level 4 at this point or we would have heard about it. FSD is an amazing level 2 ADAS, but that's it

 

[shandering]

They're certainly not level 4 at this point or we would have heard about it. FSD is an amazing level 2 ADAS, but that's it

Again just read SAE J3016. Levels of autonomy are based on design intent.

FSD performs reasonably the entire DDT and is intended to. That is level 4.

Supervised or not, that is level 4 already.

When tesla drives around austin with someone in the passenger's seat (safety monitor) that is level 4. When tesla drives around with no one in the car that is also level 4.

What makes FSD level 2 (and really it's not) is tesla can claim it's level 2 and you have to trust them that it is. Level 4 allows supervision but you would have to be approved in every area you drive.

 

[Jeremy3292]

The LE comes with following included...

Grey interior - $1000
Cosmic silver paint - $2000
20in wheels - $2000
Tow hitch - $1000
12 month FSD - $1188
12 month supercharging - ?

$7188 value + whatever you value 12 months of free supercharging. This is the reasoning behind the Launch Ed pricing.

You’re falling for the marketing. “$7,188 value” means nothing. The car is $62k. You’re paying $62k.

 

[blipit]

You’re falling for the marketing. “$7,188 value” means nothing. The car is $62k. You’re paying $62k.

Just trying to explain to a few in this thread why it is temporarily $12k more than current Model Y Prem AWD.

This was exactly the same case for the Launch Ed Model Y "Juniper". It included...paint upgrade, wheel upgrade, interior upgrade, boost mode, tow hitch, FSD.

Juniper LE was priced at $59,990. Premium AWD now starts at $49,990.

A similar price drop will happen for the Model Y L Premium models.

 

[Zorg]

Again just read SAE J3016. Levels of autonomy are based on design intent.

FSD performs reasonably the entire DDT and is intended to. That is level 4.

Supervised or not, that is level 4 already.

When tesla drives around austin with someone in the passenger's seat (safety monitor) that is level 4. When tesla drives around with no one in the car that is also level 4.

What makes FSD level 2 (and really it's not) is tesla can claim it's level 2 and you have to trust them that it is. Level 4 allows supervision but you would have to be approved in every area you drive.

When Tesla takes on the liability for FSD accidents, it will be level 4. Til then it's level 2.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Just trying to explain to a few in this thread why it is temporarily $12k more than current Model Y Prem AWD.

This was exactly the same case for the Launch Ed Model Y "Juniper". It included...paint upgrade, wheel upgrade, interior upgrade, boost mode, tow hitch, FSD.

Juniper LE was priced at $59,990. Premium AWD now starts at $49,990.

A similar price drop will happen for the Model Y L Premium models.

If Y L is $55k then it’s a good deal. Hope to see it at that later.

 

[NinjaWrap]

Wife has a 2025 Y and had a 2021 Y Performance before that. Great cars. But they're just that, cars. Tall cars, but cars nonetheless. YL is just a little bit longer tall car.

 

[NinjaWrap]

Again learn about the levels of autonomy. Supervision is allowed under L4

It says it right there in SAE J3016 section 8.2

Levels of autonomy are not performance metrics.

The car above is operating with no driver and no steering wheel/pedals. Even the robotaxis in austin are operating this way. Tesla claims this is level 4 (which they don't need to do since it's already level 4)

If you are missing a feature of driving then FSD is considered L2. If you are reasonably not missing a feature of driving (and only supervising safety) then that would be L4.

FSD v13 would have been L2 because it was missing features of driving and the car did not execute minimum risk maneuvers. V14 can reasonably not be called level 2 since it is an attempt to drive in every scenario and it performs minimum risk maneuvers, identifies accidents, etc.

FSD is great, but it's DEFINITELY L2 still. I just had to take over yesterday for a critical issue. L3 means you don't have to pay attention but still required to be in the seat to take over if needed. L4 means you don't even have to be in the car. Cybercabs are L4, as no driver is required (although technically they DO have supervisors remotely).

 

[r2fb]

Tesla is building a cybercab with camera only. They would put other sensors if they felt they needed them. The amount of compute they have is clearly enough.

Rivian has about half the memory bandwidth with the RAP1 chip and it's only 36gb of memory. Most likely it is a cost issue

Yeah because companies never make bad decisions. Cybertruck anyone?

 

[Husky]

The new model Y L will be launching this weekend. Anticipated pricing will be close to the launch edition of the R2. We now have these main key contenders for around $60K:

- BMW iX3 (range leader)
- Volvo EX60 (luxury focused)
- R2 Launch (adventure, off-road)
- Tesla Model Y Performance (on road dynamics, FSD)
- Tesla Model Y L (6 seater, increased luxury & space)

Does the new Model Y L offer differentiation that aligns with your goals?

I have been cross shopping the Rivian R2 Launch (order window Nov-Dec) and the Model Y Performance in the latest Mystic Blue (with all options included) for the same pricing. Although I don't need the space, the Model Y L should offer (based on Australia launch), increased space, rear heated and cooled captains chairs, increased range, even better sound system, increased range, vehicle to load, for about the same price as the performance variation. Compelling to me and I look forward to seeing what's included in the launch edition, and how it is priced.

I think putting the BMW iX3 in the "around $60k" category is highly optimistic. We'll see, but I'm betting it's more like $70k+. You know how the Germans love to charge extra for things that you get on a $50k Kia.

 

[shandering]

FSD is great, but it's DEFINITELY L2 still. I just had to take over yesterday for a critical issue. L3 means you don't have to pay attention but still required to be in the seat to take over if needed. L4 means you don't even have to be in the car. Cybercabs are L4, as no driver is required (although technically they DO have supervisors remotely).

That doesn't matter. A critical issue is still level 4. Supervision is expressly allowed under level 4.

under level 3 you DO have to pay attention. You have to identify failures of the car outside of the car's driving task and instantly react to them. If your car gets a flat tire under level 3 you have to instantly react. The car is not even required to issue a warning

When Tesla takes on the liability for FSD accidents, it will be level 4. Til then it's level 2.

levels of autonomy have nothing to do with liability. Supervision is allowed

The problem with level 4 is it's not possible for consumers to have level 4 at large scale At scale, you would have to report accidents according to SGO requirements, which is much more strict than normal FSD. Consumer would have to do active work while paying $99 a month to use such level 4 software

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