Newbie charging option question

[yellowfever]

Hello,
While I am probably months away from taking delivery, I was hoping to start preparing for home charging. I did order Rivian Wall charger but now thinking about not buying one as we may be moving in about 1-2 years.

Just had a few quick questions:

1. I believe the best option is to go with NEMA 14-50 for usage with the portable charger?
2. I have a 200amp panel that is full but I heard you can run piggyback breakers which should free up two slots. Is it safest to just go with 50amp (so charging at 40amp) or do I shoot for 60amp?
3. Anything else I should make consider before running the line? Someone mentioned making sure I had a neutral wire...
4. I want to go with safest approach which I presume is Rivian Wall charger given the posts about melted plugs?

Thanks so much

Sponsored

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

The best way to do permanent home charging is to hard wire the charger. The outlet requires a GFCI breaker (more expensive), charges slower, and is an additional failure point (I have seen many melted plugs and outlets over the years).

1-2 years is still a significant amount of time. If you add a charger you can always take the charger with you (even if it's hard wired). It just needs to be removed from the wall and the wires capped.

If your panel is full you can install some tandem breakers. More importantly though a licensed electrician should do load calculation to make sure your not overloading your panel. You should go with the highest amperage breaker the load calcs allow for. The max would be 60.amp which will allow you to charge the truck at 48 amps. As you step down your limited to 80% of the rating for the circuit. A 50 amp circuit can charge at up to 40 amps.

Also, many mobile chargers max out at 32 amp though there are a few that go up to 40.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Hello,
While I am probably months away from taking delivery, I was hoping to start preparing for home charging. I did order Rivian Wall charger but now thinking about not buying one as we may be moving in about 1-2 years.

Just had a few quick questions:

1. I believe the best option is to go with NEMA 14-50 for usage with the portable charger?
2. I have a 200amp panel that is full but I heard you can run piggyback breakers which should free up two slots. Is it safest to just go with 50amp (so charging at 40amp) or do I shoot for 60amp?
3. Anything else I should make consider before running the line? Someone mentioned making sure I had a neutral wire...
4. I want to go with safest approach which I presume is Rivian Wall charger given the posts about melted plugs?

Thanks so much

1 ) yes
2) don't put a 60A breaker on a 14-50 outlet. 50A is the proper size. You can move some loads onto duplex breakers but don't run two wires to the same breaker.
3) exposed wiring in a garage needs to be in conduit or armored cable. Some local codes don't let you run NM-B wire in conduit.
4) just make sure you're adequately tightening the screw terminals down. I like double checking them after a few weeks of heavy use. 14-50 outlets generally aren't rated to be plugged and unplugged constantly and will wear out fast from that. Keep the portable plugged into the wall all the time. Periodically check the cable isn't migrating out of the outlet.

 

[SparkyR1t]

Here is what I did and would recommend. Even though you have a 200 amp main panel that has all the breaker slots used it is very unlikely you are using the full 200 amp capacity of your electrical service. You would need to calculate all the loads that run together and their individual ampacity to make this calculation

So with that said I am not a fan of piggy back or condensed space breakers. They make heat disposition challenging. I would suggest adding a new sub panel possibly in your garage of 100 amp capacity. Then install a 60 amp circuit for EV charging which would allow for a 48 amp continuous charge rate and move any loads in the garage that you can to that new panel to free up two breaker spaces for the 100 amp breaker to feed this new panel

I would not let the fact you may move in the future affect your decision to install a dedicated wall connector like the Rivian model. Having EV charging capability in a garage these days is a positive selling point

good luck

 

[yellowfever]

You guys are amazing! Thank you so much for the response - all great points. Now, let's see how my delivery window changes in the next few days

 

[SSteveEV]

I was going to pass along the Amazon basics 32A 18' charger that was on sale for $150 yesterday but it is sold out now and I then read your last point about safety.
I've been very happy with my 48A Lectron wall box. It had positive reviews and plugs in which I think it the takeaway for you if you are moving it is definitely easier to leave an outlet for the next person. When I swapped from a Model S to the R1T I just unplugged and plugged in the new charger. My commute is about 100 miles round trip though so I wanted the highest charge rate I could get at home.
I'd also suggest that having your mobile charger under your hood is nice range insurance, depending on how much driving you do out of Chicago.

 

[yellowfever]

I was going to pass along the Amazon basics 32A 18' charger that was on sale for $150 yesterday but it is sold out now and I then read your last point about safety.
I've been very happy with my 48A Lectron wall box. It had positive reviews and plugs in which I think it the takeaway for you if you are moving it is definitely easier to leave an outlet for the next person. When I swapped from a Model S to the R1T I just unplugged and plugged in the new charger. My commute is about 100 miles round trip though so I wanted the highest charge rate I could get at home.
I'd also suggest that having your mobile charger under your hood is nice range insurance, depending on how much driving you do out of Chicago.

Thanks for the heads up on plug in wall charger options. I am curious if owners use Rivian mobile charger on a daily basis at home? We probably drive no more than 50 miles per day so we probably don't need to carry one.

 

[SSteveEV]

I'm sure a lot are from what I've read when I was shopping but I think most prefer a dedicated garage hookup (or in my case exterior). For me the 48A was a speed and weather proofing improvement or I may have tried to use the mobile until home backup (V2H) is released.

But don't trust my opinion much, I'm cheap and now have 3 chargers. Home, mobile, and used eBay sacrificial trickle charger for long airport stays. $83 and it is an IP rated enclosure which I couldn't find any info on for the Rivian mobile charger. ? (But also no reviews of melted plugs because that wouldn't be cheap)

 

[MaskedRacerX]

The best way to do permanent home charging is to hard wire the charger. The outlet requires a GFCI breaker (more expensive), charges slower, and is an additional failure point (I have seen many melted plugs and outlets over the years).

FWIW, I prefer an outlet simply because it allows for a quick swap of EVSEs (aka, "chargers"). We've got a 40a Grizzl-E (using an N6-50), and I have a Tesla portable/TMC with an N6-50 adapter, so in the event the Grizzl-E fails, it's about 30 seconds to get back to decent L2 charging (and it would mean a warranty replacement of the equipment is a simple unplug-plug vs. a hardwire un/re-wire).

The Grizzl-E uses a J-connector (so the Tesla charges with the supplied adapter), but with something like a TeslaTap, the TMC could also charge the 4xe (though less critical since it's a PHEV) in the event the "primary" charger fails.

I realize with the M3P, we could have a 48a hardwired Tesla charger (so I'm giving up 8amps ...), but I wanted to keep it less Tesla specific (and a good thing, since when the M3P goes back mid-'24, that will be it for our Tesla ownership).

When (if) we wind up with a Rivian, we're GTG, well, really any of our next BEV options we're currently shopping!

Anyway, just my $0.02

 

[MIG]

Hello,
While I am probably months away from taking delivery, I was hoping to start preparing for home charging. I did order Rivian Wall charger but now thinking about not buying one as we may be moving in about 1-2 years.

Just had a few quick questions:

1. I believe the best option is to go with NEMA 14-50 for usage with the portable charger?
2. I have a 200amp panel that is full but I heard you can run piggyback breakers which should free up two slots. Is it safest to just go with 50amp (so charging at 40amp) or do I shoot for 60amp?
3. Anything else I should make consider before running the line? Someone mentioned making sure I had a neutral wire...
4. I want to go with safest approach which I presume is Rivian Wall charger given the posts about melted plugs?

Thanks so much

In 2 years, the likelihood of whoever you sell to having an EV will also increase so the charger may be a selling point. We were home shopping a while back and one of the homes had an immaculate garage with dual EV chargers. I can barely recall anything else about that house but the garage/EV chargers are still a vivid memory.

We currently have 2 Autel Maxichargers (in different garages) both with plugs. One is on a 60 Amp and the other on a 50. Both work great and the difference in charging speed is trivial in the grand scheme of things.

 

[yellowfever]

In 2 years, the likelihood of whoever you sell to having an EV will also increase so the charger may be a selling point. We were home shopping a while back and one of the homes had an immaculate garage with dual EV chargers. I can barely recall anything else about that house but the garage/EV chargers are still a vivid memory.

We currently have 2 Autel Maxichargers (in different garages) both with plugs. One is on a 60 Amp and the other on a 50. Both work great and the difference in charging speed is trivial in the grand scheme of things.

Def agree that it could certainly be a selling point when we market our home. Just didn't want to limit a buyer with Rivian wall charger. While I have one ordered at pre March pricing of $500, I am now leaning towards plug in version to provide additional flexibility. I don't believe IL has any incentives on charger/installation but I guess Federal credit may still exist.

 

[carsly]

I went with a NEMA 14-50 and EnelX Juicebox when I acquired a Polestar 2 (now gone). Was easy to use with the P2, a Tesla Model X (small adapter) and, if I ever get an estimate on my order, a R1S.
I prefer the plug-in options as you can take it with you when you move if you want, if the EVSE fails it's easy to just plug-in another one without needing to hire another electrician to hardwire something new and it's not tied to any one EV maker. My state (NJ) was also running incentives on certain EVSE's, I think I got $250 back and bought the Juicebox from Costco leaving me at a net cost of ~$300.

I have a sub-panel in my garage and the Juicebox is a 40-amp EVSE that I typically use at 32 amps of charging so as not to add extra thermal stress anywhere along the electrical circuits. Any way it goes, my cars have never been charging up from zero so being able to charge up overnight is still fine and it's not unusual for them to sit longer. YMMV

 

[MIG]

Def agree that it could certainly be a selling point when we market our home. Just didn't want to limit a buyer with Rivian wall charger. While I have one ordered at pre March pricing of $500, I am now leaning towards plug in version to provide additional flexibility. I don't believe IL has any incentives on charger/installation but I guess Federal credit may still exist.

Any car can charge with a Rivian charger, it's not brand-specific. We went with the Autel because it's a plug-in model that goes to 50 Amps (usable 48A on a 60A breaker). Our R1S delivery was accelerated at the last minute (over 3 year wait but our "January" delivery was moved up to late December with a 48-hr notice) so we had to wait 3 weeks for an electrician and ended up using the 240V outlet in our pole barn while we waited. Illinois does not have any incentives for charger installs.

 

[nukem384]

One thing that never gets mentioned with melting outlets, is most of the time, that happens from electricians who put in a cheap $10 dryer outlets. They aren't rated to really be able to handle 40a of constant draw for hours. Someone else mentioned keeping it plugged in and not plugging/unplugging. Definitely keep that in mind if its a dryer outlet.

A better solution is to put in a commercial/industrial outlet. This is what I have at our place. Much beefier and made to handle hours of abuse at a time. The extra $50 is totally worth the peace of mind that your house is going to catch fire. These can also be plugged/unplugged regularly if you want, but I would still try and minimize that because any outlet will wear out doing that over time.
https://www.amazon.com/Bryant-Electric-9450FR-Straight-Receptacle/dp/B003A2R9RM?th=1

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

One thing that never gets mentioned with melting outlets, is most of the time, that happens from electricians who put in a cheap $10 dryer outlets. They aren't rated to really be able to handle 40a of constant draw for hours. Someone else mentioned keeping it plugged in and not plugging/unplugging. Definitely keep that in mind if its a dryer outlet.

A better solution is to put in a commercial/industrial outlet. This is what I have at our place. Much beefier and made to handle hours of abuse at a time. The extra $50 is totally worth the peace of mind that your house is going to catch fire. These can also be plugged/unplugged regularly if you want, but I would still try and minimize that because any outlet will wear out doing that over time.
https://www.amazon.com/Bryant-Electric-9450FR-Straight-Receptacle/dp/B003A2R9RM?th=1

True, but all the other issues still remain. Plug in chargers are slower and require a GFCI breaker. The GFCI breaker tend to cause issues with EV chargers which have built-in GFCI. This causes tripping, interrupted charging, and frustration.

Some may not have a GFCI breaker however any 14-50 installed in the US today is required to have it.

True that it's easier to swap chargers but how often is a charger going to fail? A decent charger should last many years before it fails. When it does you don't have to rewire you replace the charger connecting to the existing circuit.

Now if your dead set on installing a 14-50 have at it but if your spending the money for a new circuit it's best to hard wire the charger.

Sponsored