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[CommodoreAmiga]

I don't disagree here but this is what is infuriating to me. Legacy auto's had Every opportunity (including bail outs for some) to roll out BEV literally decades sooner and resisted relentlessly. Instead waiting for startups to put forth proverbial Herculean effort to move the industry in their direction... Then Legacy autos came along, still kicking and screaming, only after being threatened with becoming obsolete and irrelevant relics of the second half of the industrial revolution. GM is pathetic, I will buy the Rivian even if it has build quality issues and I have to manually push it to my destination. Sorry for the rant.

You make some good points. And GM has an impressive amount of inertia and there are many points, throughout its history, where it's failed to adapt or get out of its own way. However, I honestly believe that DEALERS have been a significant factor preventing the legacy autos from moving to EVs.

Even recently, Cadillac dealers have been opting to terminate their franchise licenses rather than upgrade their dealerships with EVSEs and the tech necessary to sell and service BEVs. That really blows my mind -- especially since Cadillac has some cool EV products coming down the pipeline.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/cadillac-franchise-dealers-jump-ship-ev-sales-lyriq/

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[DucRider]

If you think the Frunk — which basically every EV has — is Rivian’s competitive advantage, then you must think they’re going to fail.

You make some good points. And GM has an impressive amount of inertia and there are many points, throughout its history, where it's failed to adapt or get out of its own way. However, I honestly believe that DEALERS have been a significant factor preventing the legacy autos from moving to EVs.

Even recently, Cadillac dealers have been opting to terminate their franchise licenses rather than upgrade their dealerships with EVSEs and the tech necessary to sell and service BEVs. That really blows my mind -- especially since Cadillac has some cool EV products coming down the pipeline.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/cadillac-franchise-dealers-jump-ship-ev-sales-lyriq/

Remember that dealers make very little off of the sale of the car. Service accounts for a very large chunk of their profit - and EVs provide a fraction of the service revenue an ICE vehicle.
They uncertainty of investing several hundred thousand dollars to sell/service EVs and the fear of a repeat of the ELR fiasco would make me think twice.

 

[Trandall]

You make some good points. And GM has an impressive amount of inertia and there are many points, throughout its history, where it's failed to adapt or get out of its own way. However, I honestly believe that DEALERS have been a significant factor preventing the legacy autos from moving to EVs.

[/QUOTE
Yes I have personally had two different dealerships try to talk me out of a plug in hybrid vehicle, and into a cheaper car! Crazy. One of the dealers also gave bad info that the car would qualify for a federal tax rebate not tax credit and continued to believe it was only a rebate. Most dealers make profit from parts and service after the sale which likely explains their reluctance.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Remember that dealers make very little off of the sale of the car. Service accounts for a very large chunk of their profit - and EVs provide a fraction of the service revenue an ICE vehicle.
They uncertainty of investing several hundred thousand dollars to sell/service EVs and the fear of a repeat of the ELR fiasco would make me think twice.

I think people under-estimate EV maintenance needs. Yes, the internal combustion engine is gone, but there's still lots to service. In fact, thanks to the torque of electric vehicles and the extra weight, some components may require replacement more frequently. Tires and suspension components are two examples. There are still fluids to replace (coolant, brake fluid, some BEVs have gear/differential oils). There will always be "damage" to repair. There is tons of "tech" in EVs that will require service.

Anyone who doubts that EVs are the future, is lying to themselves. Any dealer that refuses to embrace EVs is setting themselves up to fail in 10-15 years.

 

[Gshenderson]

I think people under-estimate EV maintenance needs.

My experience after owning a Tesla for 5-1/2 years and 60k miles is that maintenance is indeed far less. I looked at what “regular service” entailed for.a Tesla and opted out. So far, I’ve replaced wiper blades once and tires twice (second replace set just installed at 60k). And I’ve gone through several gallons of windshield wiper fluid. I’ve had a few minor issues that were covered under warrantee, and a couple of minor recall things. But other than that, it’s been pretty much maintenance free. Tires are the biggest thing. These things are heavy, and they are super fun to drive hard!

 

[JeremyMKE]

So now I’m the bad guy for wanting option to heat the frunk when I throw a kid in there?
Scheeez!

One parent on that Jury and you are walking!

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

My experience after owning a Tesla for 5-1/2 years and 60k miles is that maintenance is indeed far less. I looked at what “regular service” entailed for.a Tesla and opted out. So far, I’ve replaced wiper blades once and tires twice (second replace set just installed at 60k). And I’ve gone through several gallons of windshield wiper fluid. I’ve had a few minor issues that were covered under warrantee, and a couple of minor recall things. But other than that, it’s been pretty much maintenance free. Tires are the biggest thing. These things are heavy, and they are super fun to drive hard!

By your own admission you’re just ignoring the maintenance schedule? On top of that, you’re talking about the first several years of the vehicle’s life — where it will always be at it’s most reliable.

If that’s what you want to do, then that’s your call... But I’m not going to take it as an authoritative fact just because you choose to neglect your vehicle.

I could take pretty much any gas-powered car and neglect it for several years and it’ll still work. That’s actually a big reason why some brands have started to include free maintenance for the first few years on their vehicles — a subset of customers were leasing and doing zero maintenance and the vehicles would last the lease period but then become problematic for future owners (and probably caused losses in the CPO programs).

 

[Gshenderson]

By your own admission you’re just ignoring the maintenance schedule? On top of that, you’re talking about the first several years of the vehicle’s life — where it will always be at it’s most reliable.

If that’s what you want to do, then that’s your call... But I’m not going to take it as an authoritative fact just because you choose to neglect your vehicle.

I could take pretty much any gas-powered car and neglect it for several years and it’ll still work. That’s actually a big reason why some brands have started to include free maintenance for the first few years on their vehicles — a subset of customers were leasing and doing zero maintenance and the vehicles would last the lease period but then become problematic for future owners (and probably caused losses in the CPO programs).

From Tesla Model S Owner’s Manual...

Service Intervals
Your vehicle should generally be serviced on an as- needed basis. However, Tesla recommends the following maintenance items and intervals, as applicable to your vehicle, to ensure continued reliability and efficiency of your Model S.
• Brake fluid health check every 2 years (replace if necessary).
• A/C desiccant bag replacement every 2 years
• Cabin air filter replacement every 2 years
• HEPA filter replacement every 3 years
• Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter
• Rotate tires every 6,250 miles (10,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater, whichever comes first

I neglected to mention tire rotation and balance which I do every 7500 miles.

I’ll stand by my position that EV’s require less maintenance than ICE. You’re entitled to your own opinion @CommodoreAmiga.

 

[Blur1t]

I don't disagree here but this is what is infuriating to me. Legacy auto's had Every opportunity (including bail outs for some) to roll out BEV literally decades sooner and resisted relentlessly. Instead waiting for startups to put forth proverbial Herculean effort to move the industry in their direction... Then Legacy autos came along, still kicking and screaming, only after being threatened with becoming obsolete and irrelevant relics of the second half of the industrial revolution. GM is pathetic, I will buy the Rivian even if it has build quality issues and I have to manually push it to my destination. Sorry for the rant.

I agree, Wholeheartedly, if the government pushed to move the MPG’s forward with the times we would have had more like you said decades ago. Dodge is the worst. Still moving in the wrong direction with the TRX. the Jeep is the only one trying to do something, a pathetic attempt but still an attempt no less. I will take my Rivian to every car show and spread the good word wherever I can. I commend RJ for doing what no one has yet done. January can’t come soon enough.

 

[azbill]

It does look a lot smaller though. Plus, who knows if this design makes it to production for hummer. We were promised a 180 degree folding tailgate and that didn't make the cut, so perhaps there are things we are comparing to the hummer or cybertruck that may not make it to fruition either.

I have seen other angle views of the Hummer frunk and it is much deeper than the Rivian one. The width may be less, but that also could be misleading because the Hummer is at least 8 inches wider than the Rivian (w/o mirrors).

 

[MisterTea]

Rivian has confirmed there will be no HUD.

I may just buy this and get a HUD and CarPlay in the Rivian:

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

I may just buy this and get a HUD and CarPlay in the Rivian:

You’re joking, right? That product is a joke.

 

[MisterTea]

You’re joking, right? That product is a joke.

I don't want that, but I want CarPlay bad enough to try it.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

I don't want that, but I want CarPlay bad enough to try it.

I know it’s not going to happen, but I really hope they do an about-face and CarPlay is added via OTA update after LE deliveries begin and before the 2022 deliveries.

I want Rivian to succeed and reviews to be positive, but I also want every reviewer to lambaste Rivian for their lack of CarPlay support.

 

[DuckTruck]

I don't disagree here but this is what is infuriating to me. Legacy auto's had Every opportunity (including bail outs for some) to roll out BEV literally decades sooner and resisted relentlessly. Instead waiting for startups to put forth proverbial Herculean effort to move the industry in their direction... Then Legacy autos came along, still kicking and screaming, only after being threatened with becoming obsolete and irrelevant relics of the second half of the industrial revolution. GM is pathetic, I will buy the Rivian even if it has build quality issues and I have to manually push it to my destination. Sorry for the rant.

Trandall, Nothing wrong with a rant that's right. I think it's clear to most people that today's legacy automakers are soon to be dinosaurs (at least those who refuse to change). Unlike the first known dinosaurs, the new ones tremble at the thought of the end of the "I.C.E. Age". For those who may not comprehend this progression, I present the following timeline:
? ? > > ?>? > > ? ? >>?> ?+?+=RIVIAN??

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