R2 Heat Pump? Coming? Standard? Option?

[savethemanual]

A PTC heater has COP of around 0.95. Tesla's heat pump COP is between 3-6 for reference, depending on temperature outside. Heat pumps make a difference bc they don't create heat, they simply move heat where you want it or don't want it.

PTC heater: 1 kW of electricity produces 0.95 kW of heat, almost 100% efficient.
Heat pump: 1 kW of electricity produces 3 to 6 kW of heat, 300-600% efficient

This is exactly why Heat Pump water heaters should be used in our homes!

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[Jeremy3292]

This is exactly why Heat Pump water heaters should be used in our homes!

I have one myself! Rheem 65 gallon. Only uses 400 watts when running vs like 6kW for a standard water heater. Works great in my unconditioned garage.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

A heat pump should be more efficient but myself and others have not found any meaningful improvement with the Rivian implementation of it.

It’s been redesigned again for the R2, so maybe it’ll be more efficient this time?

 

[AaronTV]

The charts empirically measure the efficiency of two different vehicles under highly similar conditions. It doesn't isolate the impact of the heat pump, but you'd think if the heat pump made much difference to cold-weather efficiency then you'd see a bigger difference on the left side of the chart. Maybe the temperatures don't go low enough.

Jeremy's post doesn't make much sense to me because for one thing half the variables he listed actually ARE controlled for in Budman's test. For another thing we know the Gen 2 is supposed to be more efficient in every dimension. So if the data showed Gen 2 is more efficient, we wouldn't know if it was because of the heat pump or not. But since the data shows Gen 2 is not significantly more efficient than Gen 1 conserve, we can draw a conclusion that the heat pump can't make much of a difference in the kind of environment he's testing in.

Good explanation. Thanks!

My own anecdotal experience (in WI) is that my Gen 2 Quad WAS immediately more efficient than my Gen 1 Quad. And I swapped them out in February. Now, I certainly wasn't tracking the data in a meticulous way. And my experience doesn't explain whether or not the difference is the motors, the heat pump, or both. But it seems to be about 10% more efficient. I'll know better after next winter when I can record the full experience beginning in November rather than February.

 

[savethemanual]

It’s been redesigned again for the R2, so maybe it’ll be more efficient this time?

I think a general refinement is needed from their first go at it. I don't own an R1 but have ridden in several, it definitely can be a bit loud and can feel vibrations in the cabin. I've read of similar complaints here on this platform. I did see an interview where a Rivian engineer has stated this version for R2 is much more refined, I'm struggling to find the video though.

 

[Davethadog]

It was covered in a previous post by RivianTrackr:

Rivian tracker should not be considered an official source. Someone did actually publish the PDFs from the EPA confirming the pump somewhere on this forum though.

 

[sparked]

Rivian tracker should not be considered an official source.

It can be an official source when he has direct contacts with Rivian. In this case with the heat pump, they confirmed with him directly as a response to that prior info.

Jose has done a fantastic job this year sorting through R2 facts and rumors. Especially as we get closer to delivery. He goes out of his way to follow up with Rivian. Sometimes even multiple times like in the case with Coastal Cloud interior availability.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

They all come standard with heat pump. Nothing is missing in that department.

Hopefully it’s “missing” the obnoxious Gen 2 heat pump noises

 

[Thebandit]

Is there any resistive heating in the vehicle? It doesn't get below 0F often where I live, but it definitely does sometimes. I've had days where the average is -10F so sometimes it's even colder than that.

I'm concerned a heat pump won't effectively heat in those conditions.

 

[usulio]

You're talking about a literal n of 1 experience. This is anecdotal. It is not science nor evidence.

Don't get upset about people not taking your personal experience as gospel.

It actually is evidence and is very scientific. It's not conclusive, it doesn't tell you what every Gen 1 or Gen 2 vehicle would do but it's good data.

 

[Yota2R1T]

This is exactly why Heat Pump water heaters should be used in our homes!

I have one! It's.... Loud!

 

[sparked]

It actually is evidence and is very scientific. It's not conclusive, it doesn't tell you what every Gen 1 or Gen 2 vehicle would do but it's good data.

But you couldn't extrapolate it to R2 since it's a not exactly the same heat pump. It's helpful for R1, but someone will have to test R2 on its' own.

 

[Zoidz]

A PTC heater has COP of around 0.95. Tesla's heat pump COP is between 3-6 for reference, depending on temperature outside. Heat pumps make a difference bc they don't create heat, they simply move heat where you want it or don't want it.

PTC heater: 1 kW of electricity produces 0.95 kW of heat, almost 100% efficient.
Heat pump: 1 kW of electricity produces 3 to 6 kW of heat, 300-600% efficient

You are leaving out some facts that matter in this discussion and provide support for @Budman ’s data. As the temperature of the outside air drops the COP drops as well. It’s disingenuous to claim 300%-600% efficiency compared to resistive and not mention these facts. The spec COP of any heat pump system is at a specific test temperature, usually around 47F in the US and up to 60F in the EU. At 30F the COP can be around 2, and it will hit equilibrium with a COP of 1.0 somewhere around 0F, give or take. At that point the heat pump system is equal to a resistance heater, assuming the electrical heat energy is efficiently transferred to the coolant loop, which would be expected with a hermetically sealed compressor.

In real world operating conditions, especially in the OP’s homeland of Minnesota, the heat pump will translate to around 5% range increase compared to a resistance heater. This has been well proven by numerous owner tests. At temperatures around freezing and below, lossy operation of the motors starts to kick in to provide the necessary heat for cabin and battery warming.

 

[Dark-Fx]

A heat pump might not be that big of deal. Gen 1 R1T did not have it, Gen 2 does. I’ve had both and have kept VERY careful track of my efficiency while driving around MN and WI. I have found little evidence of a benefit.

Heat pumps matter more for daily use vs extended trips.

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