RAN Price Increase?

[Dark-Fx]

Irate? Can you read?

One more for the ignore list.

(By the way, gas stations post their prices in huge letters by the street, so you should come up with a better comparison for your trolling)

How about little tiny letters on your phone, accessible from anywhere in the world, or the charging pedestal you are standing in front of? I know, I've once been the victim of looking up gas prices on gasbuddy and finding out they've actually gone up since that morning....

I thought it was strange Rivian initially carried the same pricing across the country when some areas are vastly more expensive than others. Seems like that's been corrected now that Rivian has gotten an introduction to how much each station is costing them to run. Closest station to my home has only gone up to $.40/kWh from $.36.

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[Ed C]

How about little tiny letters on your phone, accessible from anywhere in the world, or the charging pedestal you are standing in front of? I know, I've once been the victim of looking up gas prices on gasbuddy and finding out they've actually gone up since that morning....

I thought it was strange Rivian initially carried the same pricing across the country when some areas are vastly more expensive than others. Seems like that's been corrected now that Rivian has gotten an introduction to how much each station is costing them to run. Closest station to my home has only gone up to $.40/kWh from $.36.

Another to ignore - it’s like swatting flies around here.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Another to ignore - it’s like swatting flies around here.

Why come only to complain? What did you hope to acheive?

 

[tjrivian]

My god, you are getting lost deep in the weeds!!!!!
That the ICE is one of the most inefficient engines ever conceived (and efficiency never was a goal behind ICE design) is beside the point. EVs are not 100% efficient you know, or as you put it, EVs cannot extract all that energy from the pack and turn it into motion, either. EVs just aren't so grossly inefficient as ICE.

Send an SOS to somebody to come rescue you from the deep weeds you are in, please.

Your comparison makes a lot more sense when you're comparing say heating your home via natural gas vs. heating it with electric(either resistive or heat pump). Because in that case every unit of energy you consume goes directly towards the work you're trying to do. But it makes no sense when comparing an EV to a gas powered vehicle.

Sure it's true that EVs aren't 100% efficient, but an EV is ~80% efficient whereas an ICE is ~15% efficient. If you want to drive 100 miles your options are to either buy 4 gallons of gas for a 25mpg ICE car, or put 40kWh into a 2.5mi/kWh EV. The cost of those two options is roughly similar. You don't have any option to buy 1 gallon of gas and have you car go 100 miles.

When I bought my last EV, a model X in 2016, it came with free supercharging for life. Clearly taking that car on a roadtrip was much cheaper than taking an ICE. But times have changed and no one is really offering lifetime free DCFC anymore. The fact that DCFC costs about the same as the equivalent useful amount of gas seems reasonable.

 

[SANZC02]

And here is a sobering thought for EV owners. Forget electricity and gasoline. Instead, compare the two in apples-to-apples fashion. That is, compare both in terms of energy.
In my neck of the woods, the average price of gasoline is $4.60. This means that ICE drivers pay on average $0.136 per kWh of energy (liquid kWh).

When was the last time you found a fast charger costing anywhere near that?
The nearest Tesla supercharger costs @0.60/kWh.

He is not wrong.

In your comparison of cost of 135 kWh charge to 4 gallons of gas, the argument is not for comparable range.

My R1S on a full charge can get over 300 miles of range. There is no vehicle of comparable size and/or capability that gets anywhere near 75 mpg in order to go 300 miles on 4 gallons of gas.

 

[bigsky]

He is not wrong.

In your comparison of cost of 135 kWh charge to 4 gallons of gas, the argument is not for comparable range.

My R1S on a full charge can get over 300 miles of range. There is no vehicle of comparable size and/or capability that gets anywhere near 75 mpg in order to go 300 miles on 4 gallons of gas.

This is akin to suggesting that just because an EV is far more efficient than an ICE, an EV therefore should pay a lot more for the price of energy and therefore it is okay to charge outlandish prices, to put it mildly. Such is an argument that is fatally flawed.

Consequently, a more "efficient" ICE, e.g., a Prius because it is more "efficient" than your typical ICE should therefore, according to this thinking, pay more for the price of gasoline than other ICE vehicles. As I said, such is fatally flawed thinking.

Likewise, a lousy ICE that makes barely 10 MPG should have to pay for gas at far discounted prices than other ICE vehicles. Talk about turning Logic 101 on its head!

 

[bigsky]

Your comparison makes a lot more sense when you're comparing say heating your home via natural gas vs. heating it with electric(either resistive or heat pump). Because in that case every unit of energy you consume goes directly towards the work you're trying to do. But it makes no sense when comparing an EV to a gas powered vehicle.

Sure it's true that EVs aren't 100% efficient, but an EV is ~80% efficient whereas an ICE is ~15% efficient. If you want to drive 100 miles your options are to either buy 4 gallons of gas for a 25mpg ICE car, or put 40kWh into a 2.5mi/kWh EV. The cost of those two options is roughly similar. You don't have any option to buy 1 gallon of gas and have you car go 100 miles.

When I bought my last EV, a model X in 2016, it came with free supercharging for life. Clearly taking that car on a roadtrip was much cheaper than taking an ICE. But times have changed and no one is really offering lifetime free DCFC anymore. The fact that DCFC costs about the same as the equivalent useful amount of gas seems reasonable.

You are making the fallacy argument of the beard to support your point, i.e., when is a beard a beard?
As I said, a Prius does not pay more for gas than a regular/worse ICE car. Energy is energy is energy. What a vehicle does with it matters not.
Just because my EVs are far more efficient than any ICE vehicle does not mean that efficiency should be penalized with scam prices for that energy. You may think it is reasonable. I respectfully could not disagree more with you if I tried.

Lastly, charging at home, it would cost me less than $10.00 to fully charge my R1S. Going down to the Tesla supercharger near me, it would cost me $81. Same electricity, same utility company, same place where the electricity comes from. That's is a >700% markup. Therefore, no, it is not reasonable at all. It is a scam, rather..

 

[tjrivian]

You are making the fallacy argument of the beard to support your point, i.e., when is a beard a beard?
As I said, a Prius does not pay more for gas than a regular/worse ICE car. Energy is energy is energy. What a vehicle does with it matters not.
Just because my EVs are far more efficient than any ICE vehicle does not mean that efficiency should be penalized with scam prices for that energy. You may think it is reasonable. I respectfully could not disagree more with you if I tried.

That's exactly the point that you get wrong though Energy != Energy. Energy in one form costs a different price than energy in a different form. Do you also complain that the price you pay for a unit of energy from your home's natural gas service is different than the price you per same unit of energy from your home's electrical service? Do you complain that the same unit of electrical energy has prices that vary widely over the course of the day?

You could probably buy a nice big lump of coal that contains a lot of energy for a real cheap price. But it does you no good because neither your EV nor your ICE can do anything with it.

 

[hgpayne]

Its

It's only certain locations. on the app, u can check the rate

Interestingly I charged at Flagstaff on the 6th for 36 cents/kWh and then a week later it was 44 cents. I looked in the car's nav and it still said 36 cents but the app did show the new price of 44 cents.

 

[hgpayne]

Frankly, I am surprised that the low price lasted as long as it has.

$0.36 kW/h is less than all others that I'm aware of.

The location based variable pricing is in anticipation of opening up the RAN to all CCS1 vehicles, I believe...

They should copy Tesla's model (again). Charge a membership fee to non-Rivians to get "Rivian" rates, otherwise it is 10 cents/whatever more a kWh.

I've checked areas I frequent and the new Rivian price seems to match the nearby Tesla supercharger rate (with membership).

 

[SANZC02]

They should copy Tesla's model (again). Charge a membership fee to non-Rivians to get "Rivian" rates, otherwise it is 10 cents/whatever more a kWh.

I've checked areas I frequent and the new Rivian price seems to match the nearby Tesla supercharger rate (with membership).

I assume once they open to non-Rivian the price will be higher for those.

For instance Tesla in Quartzite, AZ is 44 cents, same as the new Rivian price but for Tesla non-member NACS it is 57 cents.

 

[SANZC02]

This is akin to suggesting that just because an EV is far more efficient than an ICE, an EV therefore should pay a lot more for the price of energy and therefore it is okay to charge outlandish prices, to put it mildly. Such is an argument that is fatally flawed.

Consequently, a more "efficient" ICE, e.g., a Prius because it is more "efficient" than your typical ICE should therefore, according to this thinking, pay more for the price of gasoline than other ICE vehicles. As I said, such is fatally flawed thinking.

Likewise, a lousy ICE that makes barely 10 MPG should have to pay for gas at far discounted prices than other ICE vehicles. Talk about turning Logic 101 on its head!

Then based on the logic that because electricity and gasoline generate the same unit of energy they should cost the same I would ask this?

If I needed bags of ballast to hold down my sun shade at the beach, should 10 lbs of gold or 10 pounds of sand cost the same as they both are providing 10 lbs of ballast.

 

[VSG]

They should copy Tesla's model (again). Charge a membership fee to non-Rivians to get "Rivian" rates, otherwise it is 10 cents/whatever more a kWh.

Yeah, like Tesla invented that model.

 

[bigsky]

Then based on the logic that because electricity and gasoline generate the same unit of energy they should cost the same I would ask this?

If I needed bags of ballast to hold down my sun shade at the beach, should 10 lbs of gold or 10 pounds of sand cost the same as they both are providing 10 lbs of ballast.

Except state legislators decided that gold is what EV owners are and therefore quite all right to scam them in every possible way.

Energy is energy is energy is energy. And the 700% price increase in fast chargers compared to what I pay for the same electricity at home, same source, same everything only means one thing: SCAM.
Apparently, many EV owners either are happy with this scheme, or else they don't care, or else they do not understand, or all of the above.

 

[SteveInBend]

Except state legislators decided that gold is what EV owners are and therefore quite all right to scam them in every possible way.

Energy is energy is energy is energy. And the 700% price increase in fast chargers compared to what I pay for the same electricity at home, same source, same everything only means one thing: SCAM.
Apparently, many EV owners either are happy with this scheme, or else they don't care, or else they do not understand, or all of the above.

Here's an article from EVgo that provides background on the costs associated with DCFC networks.

https://www.evgo.com/blog/dcfc-cost-components-much-more-than-electricity/

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