Regenerative braking - revisited

[tylerdurden03]

I like brake regen exactly the way it is with the exception of the inability to completely turn it off in snow mode.

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[dleepnw]

non-issue for majority of folks. and this talk of its not natural is only relevant because youre used to ICE. BEVs are the future, so get used to the new natural.

 

[zoomer0056]

It's worth noting that on the freeways, I typically drive at 80+ mph and faster the vehicle goes, more it makes the difference since it requires higher energy to overcome the vehicle drag. Costing offsets the need for the constant energy input.

This is not making sense. Do you want to coast down hill at 80mph with no braking?

 

[R1Tom]

I assume I’m misunderstanding this post, but it reads as if your way of driving is so important to you that you don’t give it up even to help your daughter avoid getting carsick?

You assumed correctly(that you misunderstand post) when she was younger, it became apparent she was developing car sickness, and made it clear she wasn't a fan of any form of even slightly aggressive driving. So I dialed it way back. Typically now she usually drives whenever in a car to avoid the sickness she gets with being a passenger in a car. My driving is very dialed back whenever I have passengers period. And all my driving on public roads is way dialed back.

 

[mkg3]

This is not making sense. Do you want to coast down hill at 80mph with no braking?

Since you're in Camarillo, the section of 101 from TO down towards Oxnard is a steep downgrade. Most cars during moving traffic is going about 80mph.

With R1S, in a Standard Regen, you'll need to input throttle to maintain constant speed in the flow of traffic. If there was a low regen setting, it would coast much easier with less input to the throttle; hence, less use of energy.

The whole point is not if nOPD is good or bad, or like it or dislike it. My point is what results in the better efficiency and longer range on a highway driving between charges.

 

[zoomer0056]

With R1S, in a Standard Regen, you'll need to input throttle to maintain constant speed in the flow of traffic.

I can do exactly that on that road in my 2022 MSLR. The energy ribbon shows energy is going into the battery while regen is controlled with the accelerator peddle. Its like manual regen regulation. I think hitting the sweet spot between road decline and speed will always be hit and miss with a static regen setting. As I write, I am thinking it best to use traffic aware cruise control (TACC on a Tesla) instead of accelerator/regen setting regulation. You'll get the perfect blend of regen while maintaining speed and following distance.

 

[brianmartin]

I own an EV6, but I follow Rivian development closely and I frequently go back and forth over ordering an R1S. This issue is one of several things keeping me away from Rivian for the moment.

It seems there is always a major division/conflict on this. There is a specific group of people who lock on to OPD fairly quickly and develop what I can only call an...intense affinity for it. This seems to be about 20-30% of people. In threads about one-pedal-driving, they seem to respond very definitively and matter-of-fact...as if it was the most natural way to drive in the world, and they cannot fathom that someone else doesn't like it. They seem to answer any questioning of OPD with an accusation that the questioner isn't "doing it right" or they "Just need to get used to it"--despite the fact that most EVs have blended braking. They just cannot imagine how people don't love it like they do.

Before I got my EV6, I had spent many hours researching EVs online and seen many posts singing the praises of OPD. So when I finally got my first EV, the very first thing I did was switch to OPD, as I'd heard that "you just need to get used to it, then the revelation will come, that its the most natural way to drive, and you'll never go back." Great! Shouldn't be much trouble I thought. I owned many manual transmission vehicles in the past, so OPD should be just like that only better and with much more control.

So I dutifully forced myself to use OPD for days, weeks, finally months...and then I finally called it quits and just went back to mode 1 on my EV6 which is a low level of regen with blended braking that feels very close to coasting (not quite).

Why? Because I hated having to constantly apply pressure with my calf and thigh muscles to keep the accelerator in the exact right place to achieve coasting. As someone else said, it did not feel natural to have to precisely press the accelerator at virtually all times except when completely stopped.

There are two notable exceptions where I love OPD--stop and go traffic, and fun/sport driving. In traffic, OPD does actually reduce brain/muscle workload as you'd be shifting your foot from pedal to pedal if not for OPD. And in sport driving, you are frequently accelerating and decelerating, so OPD kind of automates that process for you, giving you more mental capacity to focus on the enjoyable aspects of driving.

But during all other driving, which is the large majority of the driving I do, I hated OPD, and still do. I could never buy a vehicle without a coast/blended braking mode, and I will not buy a Rivian until they have it. The fact that most EV's available today offer blended braking modes, tells me that most people in fact do NOT prefer OPD. Which is confusing, because before I bought my EV6, the sentiment online seemed overwhelmingly positive for OPD. So it appears that people who are in love with OPD, despite only being around 20-30% of people, dominate in online discourse about EVs in such a way that it appears OPD is more uniformly preferred than it actually is. It seems that many people are just "getting used to it" because of the many other great things about Rivian, but in reality, would prefer more regen options. I hope Rivian is listening!

I also hope that the OPD aficionados trying to insinuate that people with other opinions are "wrong" and we "just need to get used to it" would just quit it. I'm an adult with decades of driving experience of all different vehicles, and now EVs. You don't have some secret knowledge or wisdom that I don't. You aren't better at operating pedals than I am!

 

[WSea]

I own an EV6, but I follow Rivian development closely and I frequently go back and forth over ordering an R1S. This issue is one of several things keeping me away from Rivian for the moment.

It seems there is always a major division/conflict on this. There is a specific group of people who lock on to OPD fairly quickly and develop what I can only call an...intense affinity for it. This seems to be about 20-30% of people. In threads about one-pedal-driving, they seem to respond very definitively and matter-of-fact...as if it was the most natural way to drive in the world, and they cannot fathom that someone else doesn't like it. They seem to answer any questioning of OPD with an accusation that the questioner isn't "doing it right" or they "Just need to get used to it"--despite the fact that most EVs have blended braking. They just cannot imagine how people don't love it like they do.

Before I got my EV6, I had spent many hours researching EVs online and seen many posts singing the praises of OPD. So when I finally got my first EV, the very first thing I did was switch to OPD, as I'd heard that "you just need to get used to it, then the revelation will come, that its the most natural way to drive, and you'll never go back." Great! Shouldn't be much trouble I thought. I owned many manual transmission vehicles in the past, so OPD should be just like that only better and with much more control.

So I dutifully forced myself to use OPD for days, weeks, finally months...and then I finally called it quits and just went back to mode 1 on my EV6 which is a low level of regen with blended braking that feels very close to coasting (not quite).

Why? Because I hated having to constantly apply pressure with my calf and thigh muscles to keep the accelerator in the exact right place to achieve coasting. As someone else said, it did not feel natural to have to precisely press the accelerator at virtually all times except when completely stopped.

There are two notable exceptions where I love OPD--stop and go traffic, and fun/sport driving. In traffic, OPD does actually reduce brain/muscle workload as you'd be shifting your foot from pedal to pedal if not for OPD. And in sport driving, you are frequently accelerating and decelerating, so OPD kind of automates that process for you, giving you more mental capacity to focus on the enjoyable aspects of driving.

But during all other driving, which is the large majority of the driving I do, I hated OPD, and still do. I could never buy a vehicle without a coast/blended braking mode, and I will not buy a Rivian until they have it. The fact that most EV's available today offer blended braking modes, tells me that most people in fact do NOT prefer OPD. Which is confusing, because before I bought my EV6, the sentiment online seemed overwhelmingly positive for OPD. So it appears that people who are in love with OPD, despite only being around 20-30% of people, dominate in online discourse about EVs in such a way that it appears OPD is more uniformly preferred than it actually is. It seems that many people are just "getting used to it" because of the many other great things about Rivian, but in reality, would prefer more regen options. I hope Rivian is listening!

Most EVs? Seems the Camaro is a better fit

 

[brianmartin]

Most EVs? Seems the Camaro is a better fit

...and there you have it. perfect example of what I was talking about. did you have something substantive to add? If so, why aren't you sharing it?

 

[MountainBikeDude]

I own an EV6, but I follow Rivian development closely and I frequently go back and forth over ordering an R1S. This issue is one of several things keeping me away from Rivian for the moment.

It seems there is always a major division/conflict on this. There is a specific group of people who lock on to OPD fairly quickly and develop what I can only call an...intense affinity for it. This seems to be about 20-30% of people. In threads about one-pedal-driving, they seem to respond very definitively and matter-of-fact...as if it was the most natural way to drive in the world, and they cannot fathom that someone else doesn't like it. They seem to answer any questioning of OPD with an accusation that the questioner isn't "doing it right" or they "Just need to get used to it"--despite the fact that most EVs have blended braking. They just cannot imagine how people don't love it like they do.

Before I got my EV6, I had spent many hours researching EVs online and seen many posts singing the praises of OPD. So when I finally got my first EV, the very first thing I did was switch to OPD, as I'd heard that "you just need to get used to it, then the revelation will come, that its the most natural way to drive, and you'll never go back." Great! Shouldn't be much trouble I thought. I owned many manual transmission vehicles in the past, so OPD should be just like that only better and with much more control.

So I dutifully forced myself to use OPD for days, weeks, finally months...and then I finally called it quits and just went back to mode 1 on my EV6 which is a low level of regen with blended braking that feels very close to coasting (not quite).

Why? Because I hated having to constantly apply pressure with my calf and thigh muscles to keep the accelerator in the exact right place to achieve coasting. As someone else said, it did not feel natural to have to precisely press the accelerator at virtually all times except when completely stopped.

There are two notable exceptions where I love OPD--stop and go traffic, and fun/sport driving. In traffic, OPD does actually reduce brain/muscle workload as you'd be shifting your foot from pedal to pedal if not for OPD. And in sport driving, you are frequently accelerating and decelerating, so OPD kind of automates that process for you, giving you more mental capacity to focus on the enjoyable aspects of driving.

But during all other driving, which is the large majority of the driving I do, I hated OPD, and still do. I could never buy a vehicle without a coast/blended braking mode, and I will not buy a Rivian until they have it. The fact that most EV's available today offer blended braking modes, tells me that most people in fact do NOT prefer OPD. Which is confusing, because before I bought my EV6, the sentiment online seemed overwhelmingly positive for OPD. So it appears that people who are in love with OPD, despite only being around 20-30% of people, dominate in online discourse about EVs in such a way that it appears OPD is more uniformly preferred than it actually is. It seems that many people are just "getting used to it" because of the many other great things about Rivian, but in reality, would prefer more regen options. I hope Rivian is listening!

I also hope that the OPD aficionados trying to insinuate that people with other opinions are "wrong" and we "just need to get used to it" would just quit it. I'm an adult with decades of driving experience of all different vehicles, and now EVs. You don't have some secret knowledge or wisdom that I don't. You aren't better at operating pedals than I am!

For myself, I got used to opd quicker than I expected, getting in a tesla having driven my Rivian daily in max, feels unexpectedly "coasty" by comparison. For me where opd can be a bit irksome is due to a couple knee injuries, I need to reset my knee periodically to stop it from aching. I know, old man... But I'm only 40. Anyway, you can't simply take your foot off the pedal momentarily, at speed, without either activating ACC, or risk putting every passengers face into either the dash, or the back of my chair.

So even in my own experiences, despite adapting to it, I can see why it can be finicky for some people, and cause others to experience motions sickness if the driver doesn't have a steady, even, foot pressure.

 

[Riviot]

There are two notable exceptions where I love OPD--stop and go traffic, and fun/sport driving.

Well these are the only ways to drive anyway, so what's the problem? /s

Having also "owned many manual transmission vehicles in the past," I really do think it correlates best to engine braking. Did you do that much with your stick shifts, or just throw in neutral and brake?

Have you driven a CVT transmission vehicle as well, or a snow mobile? I went from a CVT motorcycle (Aprilia) to the Rivian and really think that set me up for success. I learned to use the engine to slow down and time my deceleration to use the brakes as little as possible.

 

[zoomer0056]

Just need to get used to it

People use this phrase a lot when talking about OPD. It's not "get used to", it's "learn how to".

 

[WSea]

...and there you have it. perfect example of what I was talking about. did you have something substantive to add? If so, why aren't you sharing it?

Hey, everyone has their right to an opinion after they've given enough time to learn something new. Some people will never get it which is fine. Had a loaner EV with paddle regen (which I liked) however once you got below 5-10 you had to hit the brake to stop which I hated. Also hated how it tried to mimic an automatic transmission in how it crawled forward from a stop. OPD is for me and I won't have a vehicle without anything else moving forward. As far as coasting, pay attention to the gauge view when modulating the go pedal. Most of the time when it feels like coasting you are getting slight regen so I don't get the better eff argument

 

[zoomer0056]

Hey, everyone has their right to an opinion after they've given enough time to learn something new. Some people will never get it which is fine. Had a loaner EV with paddle regen (which I liked) however once you got below 5-10 you had to hit the brake to stop which I hated. Also hated how it tried to mimic an automatic transmission in how it crawled forward from a stop. OPD is for me and I won't have a vehicle without anything else moving forward. As far as coasting, pay attention to the gauge view when modulating the go pedal. Most of the time when it feels like coasting you are getting slight regen so I don't get the better eff argument

Yes, all the way.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I've tried to debunk the 'I drove stick' thing in another reply - I've driven stick for > 30 yrs and currently own 3 stick shift cars (I think I said 4 earlier, but forgot that I traded my WRX STI in when I picked up the Rivian).

I've explained exactly why it happens to me - no amount of 'practice' is going to stop me from bouncing in my seat and having my foot move on the pedal. Sure, maybe I can practice 'girding' myself for the bumps and not have my foot move as much. Since I'm stuck with one pedal - I've described the corrective actions that I've come up with to mitigate the situation:
a) either use cruise control
b) use a mode where the throttle response is significantly turned down and the suspension is softer

I'm pretty sure most of us understand feathering / smooth on-smooth off for pedals. I learned to drive with a pendulum on the dash and I'm teaching my daughter that way. I'm personally totally fine in the Rivian except when I'm bouncing in the seat. Maybe I could 'practice' my way into not bouncing in the seat so foot doesn't move uncontrollably as much - more practically I just need to use a mode that reduces the bumps and throttle response in the conditions.

But back to first principles - my argument is basically: Having driven both, back and forth on a daily basis between the two models for half a year now - I much prefer / enjoy having separate controls for acceleration and deceleration, rather than a unitary control. And then I cited one negative effect of the unitary control that I've experienced.

So it is a bit ironic for the stick-shift folks to say: eh, I went from three controls to one, it's the same thing. Yes but no, learning how to feather a pedal - sure. Having discretionary control over the vehicle's functions, not the same at all. Why did you want a stick shift in the first place? Fuel economy or vehicle control?

Realistically - Rivian isn't going to change a thing and it isn't a deal breaker for 90%+ of us, certainly not me.

Summarizing the comment section so far - and I really appreciate that folks kept it pretty civil for a very binary like it / don't like it topic , we have:

50% Love it. "If you don't love it , then you must be doing it wrong."
50% Eh, it could be better. "I've had the car for 10K+ miles, and the car is still hard to drive as smoothly as my previous car and people are getting car sick."

I would posit that building a car where 50% of the people cannot get it right after a year of ownership is perhaps not ideal?

There are a lot of useful suggestions that folks contributed here, to summarize:
a) using cruise control is going to be very smooth (and it works well off highway)
b) using 'conserve' or other modes that dampen the throttle response also help.

And yes, I'm self admittedly a jack*ss for ripping around country roads that are under construction in sport / low mode and then whining that it is hard to control the throttle perfectly as my and my kids heads are bouncing off the roof. Maybe I need to see how Baja trophy truck drivers do it - though I'm pretty sure they don't go into a full regen braking if their foot lifts off the pedal on a bump...

I have never once had the problem of bouncing on the pedal and my truck lives in sport stiff. You need to set your heel on the ground and pivot Instead of riding the pedal.

Baja drivers could drive full regen just fine because they are never completely off the pedal unless applying brake. Its also nowhere near of 50% of year long owners not liking one pedal.

If I had to give a percentage I would say its more like 95-5 for one pedal. My wife managed it just fine after her first couple drives and everyone else I've had drive it did fine as well usually much sooner. My uncle was as good as me in 5 min. He calibrated himself in a couple stop starts and he was pushing my truck through corners easily.

He's 65 and never drove an EV before testing my truck. Granted if I was to list the number of super cars he has owned it would be an impressive list. Still I maintain its a skill issue not an issue with the truck. If others can do it with no problem over the same roads then its not the truck.

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