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Autolycus

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Major point to keep in mind: Tesla’s blog post says absolutely nothing at all about licensing requirements and fees, IP sharing, etc. This offer to let other manufacturers use the Tesla connector has existed for years. None have taken Tesla up on the offer. Why? Tesla’s demands have been insane—both cost-wise (they required “investment in the supercharger network) and with respect to their absolutely IP demands. Beyond that, nobody has any interest in adopting a “standard” that is completely controlled by Tesla. There’s too much risk.

As I noted earlier, DOT will require all NEVI funds be spent such that there’s a CCS port on every pedestal. This announcement isn’t going to change DOT’s stance on that because CCS is a significantly more open standard.

oh, and we haven’t even touched on payment for a charging session. Tesla’s super chargers don’t have any way for a car to pull up, pay for a single use, charge, and be on their way. The car must handle all of that process, which means the car has to be known to Tesla in advance and payment method must be on file with Tesla. That’s completely unworkable for a broad-access network.
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av8or

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Tesla has always claimed to be open source with their patents. This isn’t anything new really. It s just a way for Tesla to try and scoop up IRA money with existing superchargers. As a share holder I like the move, but it is really just a money grab. If you don’t use my connector, you can’t use my charger. Tesla could provide an adapter and accomplish the same thing without people or manufacturers changing the port. Oh but then they’d have to open up the superchargers to everyone. I doesn’t seem like that’s the goal in this case, or they would have done it.
 

manitou202

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The CCS plug isn't as elegant, but the reality is if the CCS network had better coverage and reliability than Tesla's network, no one would be talking about this. We all want great coverage and a reliable network. Most do not really care about the shape of the plug. If you use a new EA charger with the longer more flexible cables, I see no issues with the plug.

Tesla's current network even with an adapter, would not work well for most CCS EVs. Their cables are so short that they won't reach most EV ports. Longer cables will ultimately be required along with pull through style stalls. Tesla eventually will need to make a lot of changes to their existing chargers regardless and should just move to the CCS standard at the same time.
 

Zorg

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Major point to keep in mind: Tesla’s blog post says absolutely nothing at all about licensing requirements and fees, IP sharing, etc. This offer to let other manufacturers use the Tesla connector has existed for years. None have taken Tesla up on the offer. Why? Tesla’s demands have been insane—both cost-wise (they required “investment in the supercharger network) and with respect to their absolutely IP demands. Beyond that, nobody has any interest in adopting a “standard” that is completely controlled by Tesla. There’s too much risk.

As I noted earlier, DOT will require all NEVI funds be spent such that there’s a CCS port on every pedestal. This announcement isn’t going to change DOT’s stance on that because CCS is a significantly more open standard.

oh, and we haven’t even touched on payment for a charging session. Tesla’s super chargers don’t have any way for a car to pull up, pay for a single use, charge, and be on their way. The car must handle all of that process, which means the car has to be known to Tesla in advance and payment method must be on file with Tesla. That’s completely unworkable for a broad-access network.
With a good contract lawyer, risk is absolutely zero. It wouldn't be that hard to paper that up.

Payment would be handled by Tesla. End of the day, it comes down to whether 2 parties can come to an agreement. I bet that someone will buy in, and a lot will follow.
 

Autolycus

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With a good contract lawyer, risk is absolutely zero. It wouldn't be that hard to paper that up.

Payment would be handled by Tesla. End of the day, it comes down to whether 2 parties can come to an agreement. I bet that someone will buy in, and a lot will follow.
To date, Tesla has rejected any attempts to negotiate the licensing terms, and the terms they’ve offered would undermine the other party’s IP in untenable ways. Maybe that’s changed, but nothing in this announcement actually suggests that it has. I still strongly suspect this is a PR stunt Hail Mary where they’re trying to look like they’re an “open” standard and will play the victim card when nobody wants to talk.

From a business perspective, there’s really not much incentive to even talk to Tesla. You get a better connector? Whooptee doo. The number of customers walking away from Kia, Ford, GM or VW because of CCS can probably be counted in the hundreds. Enthusiasts posting on dedicated EV message boards are an incredibly niche subset of customers.
 

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emoore

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I think the only way Tesla completely opens up the superchargers is if Elon steps down. His ego is way to big to share or be an equal partner in something.
 

Zorg

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To date, Tesla has rejected any attempts to negotiate the licensing terms, and the terms they’ve offered would undermine the other party’s IP in untenable ways. Maybe that’s changed, but nothing in this announcement actually suggests that it has. I still strongly suspect this is a PR stunt Hail Mary where they’re trying to look like they’re an “open” standard and will play the victim card when nobody wants to talk.

From a business perspective, there’s really not much incentive to even talk to Tesla. You get a better connector? Whooptee doo. The number of customers walking away from Kia, Ford, GM or VW because of CCS can probably be counted in the hundreds. Enthusiasts posting on dedicated EV message boards are an incredibly niche subset of customers.
I can't speak to how open Tesla is to actual negotiations.

Obviously, nobody cares about the plug size, but any EV that gets unfettered access to Tesla SC would get a huge competitive advantage in NA.

Time will tell whether it's smoke and mirrors or not.
 

Grabs10

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Rivian…. If you are reading this thread. I will gladly check an option box of say $1000 if you give me an option to plugging in with a tesla connector and it works on the Supercharger network when it comes time to order an R1t on my almost 3 year old reservation. I already have an adapter to charge my tesla on CCS that I have yet to use cause the CCS is garbage.
 

SSteveEV

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Just my $0.02 but when I bought a R1T I knew I'd be missing out on the supercharging network benefits, a huge downside for us all but assumed on a 5 year horizon Tesla would at some point want the cashflow of opening up the network.
Yesterday was not that day.
But perhaps in the next 4 years after this tax grab doesn't work out for them they will come around as the competitive advantage winds down.

I'm holding out hope I'm wrong and I can buy an adapter and initiate a charge via the Tesla app soon. Please prove me wrong Elon!
 

Tahoe Man

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Only fantasy is the thought of the CCS network being sufficient, or reliable ;) lol.

Quit trying to ruin the fun.

I want access to the Supercharger network, and I want it nowweweeewewwwww.
It would be great if CCS disappeared. Everything about it is bad.
Sandy Monroe couldn't figure out how to operate the charger on his first try. And somehow little old ladies and non-tech people are all suppose to be using it one day??? LMAO!
 
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lefkonj

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Don't think this will happen since the EU has already said that the J1772 is the standard period. They have plenty of power here and have forced everyone who sells there to comply. Additionally with VW group (VW, Audi, Porsche, Lambo, Skoda), BMW, MB, Ford, Chevy, Rivian and Lucid all working with J1772 it is more likely that Tesla changes. It isn't about which one is better but which one is more adopted. Just look back at the adoption of Blu-Ray.
 

Tahoe Man

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Rivian…. If you are reading this thread. I will gladly check an option box of say $1000 if you give me an option to plugging in with a tesla connector and it works on the Supercharger network when it comes time to order an R1t on my almost 3 year old reservation. I already have an adapter to charge my tesla on CCS that I have yet to use cause the CCS is garbage.
The problem is people still are buying non-Tesla EV's and just putting up with the garbage CCS network. Worse is some Youtube EV influencers enjoy running around almost getting stranded. There's a youtube couple with their kids showcase themselves towing a trailer with their Rivian, even though they've been stranded and usually have terrible charging experiences, but they often just blow it off or sugar coat and act if they're having fun. This gets the ccs network nowhere.
 

Tanquen

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Having used both, the Tesla one is way easier to connect and disconnect. It seems like plugs and sockets that are designed to be used often, should be easier to use, tapered to make things line up easier, etc. Like original USB mini and micro versus USB-C.
 

Ralph

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"Within a short period of time anyone with a CCS capable vehicle will be able to charge on the Tesla supercharger network."

If you believe this is the new reality, ask yourself why, from a marketing and business perspective, the "spokesman" of Tesla wouldn't be *screaming* the news of this development from something like say...... Twitter?

I can't imagine that it wouldn't engender feelings of good will from people otherwise generally offended by the very existence of a company and leader so genuinely concerned about the dame ICE vehicles cause the plant..

In any case, doing so (screaming the news) would seem like it would be a decent distraction from other recent unpleasantries. Right?

Perhaps there is just not enough time in a day.
 

C.R. Rivian

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Steve Jobs, with gritted teeth, finally agreed to open up itunes to non-Macs. Turns out Apple made a ton of money not being completely proprietary. Maybe Elon will decide he needs more cash flow to be able to play with his new toy (twitter).
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