When do you think we’ll see charging station regulations?

[jnc007]

When do you suppose we'll get to some actual charging station regulations? On a broader more obvious side of things, Im talking about stations being broken down all the time but there's other problems to consider. Station locations Ive found to be wildly inaccurate. Ive also run into stations being listed as available, but in reality they're inside a private condo association or in an office building private lot. My final annoyance is why does every brand require a separate app, separate handshake system and separate payment setup? This whole thing needs to be overseen and regulated and simplified or the "normies" or ney-sayers or just the people on the fence wont convert.

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[Cycliste]

https://calevip.org/sites/default/files/docs/calevip/California_EVCS_Regulations_Guide.pdf

 

[jnc007]

https://calevip.org/sites/default/files/docs/calevip/California_EVCS_Regulations_Guide.pdf

So a minimum of 6-8 years ?‍? thats not great.

 

[ndmiller]

I'd place a bet on never. All the companies will fight any type of regulation until the end.

 

[iamnid]

We don't need regulations. We need the companies running these chargers to have an incentive to keep them running. Tesla is able to do it.

It's not surprising that EA, a company that started as a punishment to VW, doesn't seem to give a damn about whether they're operating or profitable. They've been forced to do something they have no interest in doing.

Indeed, it seems like some of the impediments to having more DC charging stations ARE regulations. Red-tape with local utilities, laws regarding whether they can charge by the KWh, in certain states, etc. are slowing down the building of more sites.

I say, get RID of these onerous regulations and encourage the building of more DC charging sites. If they're profitable, companies will build and maintain them without any kind of regulations.

 

[Laserboy1054]

I'd place a bet on never. All the companies will fight any type of regulation until the end.

I agree with the prediction but with a caveat: there are _many_ examples of competitors in an industry getting together to agree on a standard format for something within their industry without any government mandates. I think it is likely that this will happen with chargers. It won't be very soon, but it will happen. Once a couple of the bigger players decide that cooperation is in their mutual best interests, the smaller players will be incentivized to hop on. Far from needing a government mandate, the process might be slowed by antitrust concerns!

But, for quite some time, yeah, we're just going to have to keep six different apps on our phones and devote some fraction of each significant trip to cussing.

 

[CharonPDX]

You mean like how we have similar regulations for gas stations?

Oh, that's right, we don't.

We have regulations on environmental impacts. On measurement accuracy. On "commercial matters" - but nothing that insists they work. Or that they be "mapped properly."

 

[COdogman]

I doubt we will ever see widespread regulation of the industry. IMO the only opportunity for that type of pressure is to tie any grants, subsidies to uptime, etc… NEVI has some requirements but I don’t think anyone will enforce them.

 

[Zoidz]

You mean like how we have similar regulations for gas stations?

Oh, that's right, we don't.

We have regulations on environmental impacts. On measurement accuracy. On "commercial matters" - but nothing that insists they work. Or that they be "mapped properly."

IMO the last thing we need is government regulation of EV charging stations. It will result in higher costs, and stupid regulations. As you point out, gas stations are not regulated by the government for "Quality of Service", borrowing a phrase from the IT world.

Especially on the payment topic, gas stations are all over the place. In an area where I vacation in very rural/remote Pennsylvania there are still stations where you walk inside to prepay cash or hand them your credit card - the pumps don't have credit card readers. What would those owners say/do if the guberment came along and said "You MUST have credit card readers and ApplePay"? They would probably close - they can't afford to install new hardware. That would then be reducing the options available to people living in those remote/rural areas.

Just say no to more government regulation.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

The only things that will be measured are the accuracy of the charging/ pricing. Even then, it's probably unnecessary because your vehicle also tells you how much electricity it uses. So if the charger charges me for 100kWh and my truck says I got 50kWh, I'm going to find out where the discrepancy is. I know there is slight variation from heat losses, but it would be hard for a company to cheat on their billing like they could do with a gas station.

 

[jnc007]

I'd place a bet on never. All the companies will fight any type of regulation until the end.

Gas pumps and light bulbs faced the same issues.

 

[Mathme]

I'm no expert here but these are just some of my musings/predictions in this area...

I think the consolidation will happen naturally in the marketplace as some companies look to exit the space (see Enel today) and the stronger players will become stronger

I'd hope to see a more simplified charging experience like we see at Tesla and RAN chargers to where it becomes more plug and play based on the handshake between the vehicle and the charging infrastructure. Can a Rivian pull into a Tesla and charge with an adapter, sure...and it'll cost you x amount. Can that same Rivian pull into the same Tesla charger with their adapter and initiate the charge with the Tesla App for a cheaper amount? Sure.

I think regulation may come in the "what's this going to cost me to charge" area and we'll likely see more signage around charging areas like is seen around gas stations.

 

[beatle]

We don't need regulations. We need the companies running these chargers to have an incentive to keep them running. Tesla is able to do it.

It's not surprising that EA, a company that started as a punishment to VW, doesn't seem to give a damn about whether they're operating or profitable. They've been forced to do something they have no interest in doing.

Indeed, it seems like some of the impediments to having more DC charging stations ARE regulations. Red-tape with local utilities, laws regarding whether they can charge by the KWh, in certain states, etc. are slowing down the building of more sites.

I say, get RID of these onerous regulations and encourage the building of more DC charging sites. If they're profitable, companies will build and maintain them without any kind of regulations.

I've thought about increasing the prices to charge, especially in current charging deserts. These stations will see a lot less traffic and thus less revenue, but they are arguably more important for EV adoption. The higher price means they are more motivated to keep the stations functioning as they don't want to lose out on those big margins.

I charge on the road so infrequently that paying a bit more (heck, even $1/kwh) would be more appealing than just not being able to make a trip. Eventually competition from other companies will drive prices down as charging deserts become smaller, but really a good percentage of EVs are owned by people who can afford more expensive charging - especially since most will charge at home for the majority of their miles.

Are there other ideas for incentivizing DCFCs other than tying them to the manufacturer the way Tesla and Rivian did originally?

 

[BigSkies]

The NEVI program does have some real requirements in it, but that only applies to NEVI funded stations.

Things like stations have to be 150kW each, maintain certain uptime requirements and have 24x7 access to restrooms.

I think these are good and important requirements for the program. However, I don’t think it means a business owner should be banned from putting a 60kW charger in front of a business that’s open 9-5.

A positive about EV chargers over gas stations is that they can be put into any place people park instead of making space for underground fuel tanks and large protective canopies. It does mean the end-result will be more variable, but it also means we’ll have more options.

All of that being said, we do need a world where an app isn’t required for 15 different charging networks. Or at least plug-and-charge is common enough among all major networks that you only have to set it up one time.

 

[Greg Chick]

You mean like how we have similar regulations for gas stations?

Oh, that's right, we don't.

We have regulations on environmental impacts. On measurement accuracy. On "commercial matters" - but nothing that insists they work. Or that they be "mapped properly."

The point is not the hated big government regulations, it is useable function. The gas stations all use the credit card system no app required. The gas stations are mostly all functioning. The gas pumps have all the same nozzles, the options are all the same.
As for regulations go, there are hundreds of regulations that gas stations have for smoking, access, lighting, signage, Etc. the gas stations have plenty governmental regulations.

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