Why no Trailseeker/R2 comparisons?

[narmstrong79]

Yes, in NH you probable don't need it other than to not push so much snow around occasionally. I've driven a few thousand miles in NH all with vehicles with less than 6 inches ground clearance and I was totally fine. Now I've driven tens of thousands of miles in Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, Arizona and NM where a vehicle with 6 inches of ground clearance would absolutely not work. I''ve driven a few hundred thousand miles in those states combined. NH is pretty soft compared to places I frequent in the intermountain west. In southern Utah in the winter I frequently drive 50-70 miles on dirt roads and mild off road at a time. In Wyoming in the Summer, I'll drive 100-150 miles on dirt roads with occasional really rough conditions at a time.
If I didn't need the extra ground clearance I'd be getting a BMW iX3. No way in the world would I get a Subaru Trailseeker let alone a Rivian R2. My ego isn't that fragile.

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[Great Gatsby]

Well, I got to do the Trailseeker test drive and there were some big surprises and some other interesting items that I'll share as well. I know it's long, but I hope that people wanting detail will appreciate it.

First off, I fully expected the wife to prefer the Trailseeker and I figured I would think the same as I did of the Solterra (not great... to be polite). It ended up being the opposite. The wife prefers the R2 (despite not being able to reach/fit with a bunch of stuff) and the Trailseeker was FAR better than I expected (granted, my expectations were pretty low to begin with).

First the "pleasant surprises"
- As expected, the wife fit perfectly in the Trailseeker. The seat, steering column, mirrors, etc all were fine for her. Despite that, on the way home she said "I'll just get a back pillow for the seat in the R2".
-The interface for everything isn't as bad as I was expecting. Conversely, my expectation for customization in the R2 was apparently too high. I would ask the Rivian minder who was with us "Can I move this screen over here? Can I change this to this?" and the response was always "no, it doesn't work like that". Maybe the Subaru benefited from the lowered expectations and the R2 was hurt by the pre-hype, but that is just something that stood out to me between the two. The R2 has more that can be done with its interface than the Trailseeker, but I expected still even more from it.
- I found the adjustments to be much easier in the Trailseeker than the R2. I mean, it was all basically the same as our Forester, so it was as we've been doing things for years. Knobs, buttons, etc were very natural.
- The rear hatch height is programable (and very easy to do too), so again - short people friendly, unlike the R2. I guess the wife will just have to carry a stick around to close the rear hatch on the R2, and we can't open it in our garage.
- The salesperson let me go off-road! He knew a place that they take people when test driving their Wilderness models, so we went there. It was much better than I expected. The suspension is MUCH better than the tired suspension in our Forester, so there wasn't as much getting tossed around as we are used to. The trail cameras were a nice touch, but they turned off if you went over 7 mi/hr and you couldn't change that. I only hit the underside once, but that's because I had started to get over confident due to the suspension soaking up some of the roughness of the terrain. The salesperson wanted to show off the X-Mode, but the terrain he selected for that was laughable and not a test of the system at all. Still, I know what X-Mode can do and how good it is. R2 doesn't have anything like that at the moment. (side note, I'm surprised that the Outback Wilderness does not have X-Mode)
- The A/C was fantastic. It was capable of doing a setting I call "arctic blast" and wasn't very noisy. By contrast, the R2 we tested was fairly noisy and didn't keep the vehicle as cold. I don't know why, but my 2004 Forester has amazing A/C and the 2017 Forester A/C is pretty weak.... The Trailseeker was just like the '04 and the R2 is better than the '17, but not as good as the Trailseeker or '04 Forester. Outside of the Phoenix area, Las Vegas is one of the hottest desert areas in the country, so A/C is important to me. Conversely, I couldn't care less about heated seats or steering wheels...
- We only got to drive the Limited model and it's the Touring that has ventilated seats and panoramic window roof, so those couldn't be tested against the R2. I remember how much I liked the ventilated seats in the R2, but honestly - the A/C in the Trailseeker means ventilated seats aren't needed. It's really that good.
- I wasn't as turned off by the styling of the Trailseeker. I managed to keep my food down. It's still not the prettiest vehicle out there (I like the box styling of the '04 Forester and Rivian R2), but this falls under "pleasant surprise" because I wouldn't hate myself if I had to see it every day in my garage.

The down sides
- We did the "self parking" feature. It's cute, but a bit of a gimmick. If you can't already park in the areas it'll park for you, then you probably shouldn't be driving anyway. The birds-eye view is similar to the R2, as are the guiding lines when moving around in a parking situation. That's a good thing, because the visibility isn't as good as the R2. In the R2, you know where all the corners of your vehicle are even without cameras. In the Trailseeker, it feels a little uncertain where all the corners of the vehicle are and are forced to rely on the cameras.
- The salesman tried to tout the Trailseeker's "power" on the freeway..... that was a mistake, because it doesn't have a lot. Sure it's better than whatever Subaru has to offer now, but it's weaker than their previous STI models and considerably weaker than the R2. It's not even a comparison. I know on paper there's only one second difference 0-60, but it feels like more. I know the R2 can outrun my '04 Forester... the Trailseeker cannot.
- I think on paper the cargo dimensions between the R2 and Trailseeker are similar... but it sure doesn't feel that way. The R2 has cavernous space while the Trailseeker feels more cramped. To add to that, no frunk on the Trailseeker (but there is easy-to-access battery and fluids) and the rear under-cargo area is less than even on our 2017 Forester. We recently hauled 4 people and all related camping items to Bryce Canyon recently in the 2017 Forester, and I'm not entirely convinced the Trailseeker could do the same. The R2 would have room left over.
-The adaptive cruise/lanekeeping/eyesight etc system was competent. It is basically self driving for freeways only (as long as you don't change lanes). It complained if I took my hands off the wheel or even looked somewhere else. The sensors are a little too sensitive when pulling onto the street from a parking lot. It would tell me a car is coming, but the car would be way far away still. The wife likes nanny-systems. I very much do not. The Subaru was trying to "keep me safe", but wasn't able to really drive itself. I wanted to tell the Trailseeker "If you can't do it, then don't try to tell me how to".
-Obviously the range and charging speed are negatives compared to the R2. We didn't get to test them, but we didn't get to test the R2 either. These are just already known variables.

Other notes-
They only had a white Trailseeker in Limited trim. I told them I would only be interested in the Sapphire color if I were to buy one. He said here in Las Vegas, they sell mostly white and silver vehicles. Some gray. But they don't order many of other colors because they don't sell well and they don't want vehicles sitting on the lot. If I were to order a Sapphire Trailseeker in Touring trim, I'd have to wait 3-4 months. Ha! I'd expect to get an R2 before that.... so much for the Trailseeker being "available now".

All-in-all, it was a very good trip. The wife is now all-in on the R2, and she's glad that she won't have regrets despite still being too small for the R2. Her reasoning was "it felt the same as our Forester. If we wanted that, we would just stick with the Forester and not get a new car. The R2 feels like a new car, so it's worth buying it". I'm not sure if I agree with the logic of that, (A Hummer H3 would feel different from our Forester... but that doesn't mean better) but I'm glad that I won't have to deal with any grief for getting an R2.

Still.... I was expecting essentially the same car as the rather garbage Solterra I had for a couple days last year, and I was very mistaken. I can definitely see a market for this car, particularly for people who already like Subaru. It drives and feels the same, but is an EV. We are still getting an R2, but I certainly wouldn't mock anyone for opting for the Trailseeker instead. Particularly at that price.

Honestly, pretty balanced review. Interested in test driving one now, if they have any in stock at my local Subaru...we'll see. Glad you didn't hate it!

 

[Pablolibre]

I was speaking for myself. Next time why don't you speak for yourself. It's fine if you want an R2 even if you don't ever need a vehicle with its capabilities. . Maybe you think it looks really cool and you want to support an American auto company? IDK, but pretty lame to act like you're speaking on behalf of all interested in purchasing one.

 

[Thebandit]

If I needed a new car today, I would probably get one of the Subaru EVs, probably the Uncharted, simply because I can't get an R2.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

I agree the Rivian is better which is why I'm getting one. But the Trailseeker has a lot of advantages for some people: way more physical buttons, more traditional key/entry/access setup, a much much larger network of service centers, a brand that has actually been around for a while and doesn't have the "operating at a loss, betting the company on this car" startup feel, traditional physical door handles. It's a much more "normal car that happens to be electric" than the R2. Cheaper. Actually available for purchase today.

Oh......... and a real radio

I put this together a few days ago. It’s not perfect. Maybe some folks can add to it or correct anything that doesn’t look right.

RIVIAN R2 vs. SUBARU TRAILSEEKER

Rivian R2 Subaru Trailseeker $44,990-$57,990 $39,995-$46,855 RWD or AWD AWD Only? Standard, Premium, Performance & Performance w/ Launch Package Premium, Limited, Touring & Touring with Leather Peak DCFC Speed 220kW (Unknown Curve) Peak DCFC Speed 150kW (Unknown Curve) 270-345 Miles of Range 281 Miles of Range (All Trims?) Standard 350 HP/355 lb-ft, Premium 450 HP/537 lb-ft, Performance 656 HP/609 lb-ft 375 HP Only? (Unknown lb-ft) Towing Capacity: 4,400 lbs. (Premium and Standard Unknown?) Towing Capacity: 3,500 lbs. (Trailer brakes may be needed.) 9.6” of Ground Clearance 8.5” of Ground Clearance 15.6” touchscreen w/ no physical buttons, but it has Haptic Halo Wheels on the steering wheel 14” touchscreen w/ some physical buttons under the screen and on the steering wheel Rivian’s Native UX (No Apple CarPlay or Android Auto) Standard wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto Autonomy+ in R2 Performance can do UHF and PtP in future (Launch Edition limited to Level 2+) Limited autonomy features, like lane assist and change lane assist, etc. Park Assist for Limited & Touring 5-Speaker In-house Audio System for Standard and 975W 13-Speaker Audio for Performance and Premium ???W 11-Speaker Harmon Kardon Sound System (Comes with Limited, Touring, Touring Leather)

 

[DuoRivian]

I put this together a few days ago. It’s not perfect. Maybe some folks can add to it or correct anything that doesn’t look right.

RIVIAN R2 vs. SUBARU TRAILSEEKER

Rivian R2 Subaru Trailseeker $44,990-$57,990 $39,995-$46,855 RWD or AWD AWD Only? Standard, Premium, Performance & Performance w/ Launch Package Premium, Limited, Touring & Touring with Leather Peak DCFC Speed 220kW (Unknown Curve) Peak DCFC Speed 150kW (Unknown Curve) 270-345 Miles of Range 281 Miles of Range (All Trims?) Standard 350 HP/355 lb-ft, Premium 450 HP/537 lb-ft, Performance 656 HP/609 lb-ft 375 HP Only? (Unknown lb-ft) Towing Capacity: 4,400 lbs. (Premium and Standard Unknown?) Towing Capacity: 3,500 lbs. (Trailer brakes may be needed.) 9.6” of Ground Clearance 8.5” of Ground Clearance 15.6” touchscreen w/ no physical buttons, but it has Haptic Halo Wheels on the steering wheel 14” touchscreen w/ some physical buttons under the screen and on the steering wheel Rivian’s Native UX (No Apple CarPlay or Android Auto) Standard wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto Autonomy+ in R2 Performance can do UHF and PtP in future (Launch Edition limited to Level 2+) Limited autonomy features, like lane assist and change lane assist, etc. Park Assist for Limited & Touring 5-Speaker In-house Audio System for Standard and 975W 13-Speaker Audio for Performance and Premium ???W 11-Speaker Harmon Kardon Sound System (Comes with Limited, Touring, Touring Leather)

Good summary. Trailseeker is AWD only (and no conserve mode so always on AWD) and the range depends on tires so 274 to 281.

 

[Great Gatsby]

I put this together a few days ago. It’s not perfect. Maybe some folks can add to it or correct anything that doesn’t look right.

RIVIAN R2 vs. SUBARU TRAILSEEKER

Rivian R2 Subaru Trailseeker $44,990-$57,990 $39,995-$46,855 RWD or AWD AWD Only? Standard, Premium, Performance & Performance w/ Launch Package Premium, Limited, Touring & Touring with Leather Peak DCFC Speed 220kW (Unknown Curve) Peak DCFC Speed 150kW (Unknown Curve) 270-345 Miles of Range 281 Miles of Range (All Trims?) Standard 350 HP/355 lb-ft, Premium 450 HP/537 lb-ft, Performance 656 HP/609 lb-ft 375 HP Only? (Unknown lb-ft) Towing Capacity: 4,400 lbs. (Premium and Standard Unknown?) Towing Capacity: 3,500 lbs. (Trailer brakes may be needed.) 9.6” of Ground Clearance 8.5” of Ground Clearance 15.6” touchscreen w/ no physical buttons, but it has Haptic Halo Wheels on the steering wheel 14” touchscreen w/ some physical buttons under the screen and on the steering wheel Rivian’s Native UX (No Apple CarPlay or Android Auto) Standard wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto Autonomy+ in R2 Performance can do UHF and PtP in future (Launch Edition limited to Level 2+) Limited autonomy features, like lane assist and change lane assist, etc. Park Assist for Limited & Touring 5-Speaker In-house Audio System for Standard and 975W 13-Speaker Audio for Performance and Premium ???W 11-Speaker Harmon Kardon Sound System (Comes with Limited, Touring, Touring Leather)

Honestly makes them seem pretty close on paper, with the Trailseeker appearing a better deal compared to the Rivian lower trims.

I learned not to buy the spec sheet though. A test drive reveals a lot of intangibles that will tell you very quickly how enjoyable a respective car can be on a day to day.

 

[DuoRivian]

Honestly makes them seem pretty close on paper, with the Trailseeker appearing a better deal compared to the Rivian lower trims.

I learned not to buy the spec sheet though. A test drive reveals a lot of intangibles that will tell you very quickly how enjoyable a respective car can be on a day to day.

Agree the best value for Trailseeker is at the base model with standard AWD. Also agree test driving is critical to make an informed decision.

 

[r2fb]

Valid comparison, I did check it out, but the black fenders and the terrible interior put me off. I'd get the Toyota version over the Subaru. Either R2 or this would actually fill my needs just fine, but I'd like a more premium brand, and even Rivian may not be premium enough TBH when it comes time to order for me.

 

[r2fb]

While I get the desire for the things you mentioned, it does not necessarily make for the better experience. There is some weird pushback on the modernization of the auto industry now to remain analogue when the rest of the world is moving digital. We go our lives from screen to screen. I don't think lack of buttons is the issue but rather how overkill screens can become and how thoughtless their implementation can be. IMO Rivian strikes a solid balance of screens and buttons. I drive a 2018 BMW and my wife drives a 2026 Model Y. I enjoy both, but using them back to back, the BMW is closer to something from the 80s than where Tesla is today. Cars need to get with the times. The startups get that. The traditional manufactoeers would much prefer to keep things where they are.

This is just your minority opinion, the customers have spoken and they want their buttons back. This is why VW is going back to them and Hyundai/Kia isn't taking them off. I do agree with other things such as Phone as a key being incredibly useful as a MY owner, but not the lack of buttons or spartan interiors. Those are not things customers asked for and are pushing back against. It's actually why I'm not replacing my legacy HW4 MY with a new one because they removed even more physical controls (and free autopilot).

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

Honestly makes them seem pretty close on paper, with the Trailseeker appearing a better deal compared to the Rivian lower trims.

I learned not to buy the spec sheet though. A test drive reveals a lot of intangibles that will tell you very quickly how enjoyable a respective car can be on a day to day.

Absolutely. The drive feel, ride quality, ease of use, interior comfort, visibility, usefulness of the tech, practicality of the cargo space, egress/ingress, and fun factor can’t be expressed in specs. A test drive is a must.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

Valid comparison, I did check it out, but the black fenders and the terrible interior put me off. I'd get the Toyota version over the Subaru. Either R2 or this would actually fill my needs just fine, but I'd like a more premium brand, and even Rivian may not be premium enough TBH when it comes time to order for me.

I wonder if they’ll make and/or release the R2X (aka tri-motor) with an elevated interior in the near future?

 

[rodhx]

EDIT: We also look to Japanese brands for reliability. And both Toyota and Subaru are well known for that. While I'm buying into a lot of the Rivian excitement, if I didn't live within 30 minutes of a Rivian SC, I wouldn't get one.

Most people would have a hard time getting to ANY car dealership in 30 minutes. Especially higher end or boutique brands where there may be only one location in any give metro area. It takes me 45 minutes to get to the Lexus/BMW/Mercedes/Audi dealers in Birmingham.

Granted at my career point I have had time to deal with being 2.5 hrs from the closest two Rivian SC over the last four years. It's not convenient, but the folks at the Atlanta and Franklin SC have taken great care of us so far.

 

[JeffnReno]

Most people would have a hard time getting to ANY car dealership in 30 minutes. Especially higher end or boutique brands where there may be only one location in any give metro area. It takes me 45 minutes to get to the Lexus/BMW/Mercedes/Audi dealers in Birmingham.

Granted at my career point I have had time to deal with being 2.5 hrs from the closest two Rivian SC over the last four years. It's not convenient, but the folks at the Atlanta and Franklin SC have taken great care of us so far.

When we bought our first Tesla in 2018, we had to drive to Rocklin, CA from Reno to pick it up since there were no SC in Reno at that time. Didn't stop us then and Tesla's mobile service techs came to our home and took care of us as needed. There are now both Tesla and Rivian SCs in Reno so I'm not worried. After we picked up our '23 Model Y in '22, we had an issue with the car concerning a window and they sent mobile service almost immediately. He had the door apart, found and corrected the problem in our garage within .5 hour. No worries here either.

 

[gultin]

Very different vehicles in terms of capabilities and priced accordingly IMO. This is before software even enters the conversation.

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