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Four years, four R1Ts. An adventure and a bitter-sweet cautionary tale.

mroe

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I assume your brake trouble is due to road salting in Vermont? The relative lack of friction braking makes salt related corrosion worse on EVs.

The other common failure modes I think are shared by me and most folks on this forum. I'm cautiously optimistic that the R2 platform addresses them.
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onesoil

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@onesoil Just read the whole thing.

I echo just about every single comment/sentiment here. The uncaptured time dealing with service, and the service center personnel being kneecapped is particularly relevant to me. I had good success getting the cell number of the techs doing the work, however I'm in a much smaller area. The Niagara Falls SC only has (2) guys and rarely more than 5-6 trucks in at a time. It's still a "call a hotline and wait for a call back" game with the service manager though.

I'm really impressed you stuck through it with that particular fleet. I run a business as well, and have very little tolerance for tools that don't work, even if they are the best tool available, if they can't do the work I move along to something that can. Sometimes that means getting a less than perfect tool for the job, but knowing it has that consistency it's worth the effort.

Curious how your employees feel about having to deal with tools that fail often and repeatedly. I know my guys in the shop have about the same level of patience I have. Would be an interesting secondary perspective.
Impressed is one way to put it—my partner would call it insanity at this point. I have looked into early lease termination for the two we are leasing, since one employee in particular has been fed up with his since the first winter he had his truck (we're just coming up on two years into a three year lease).

Opinions are mixed: most of us are fed up to varying degrees; our mechanic loves how it drives, but hates how unreliable they are. I am in the same boat. My father is fed up, but really needs a vehicle with the clearance. If bollinger had every come out with their truck, I think it would have been perfect for my dad. I'm even considering looking into an EV conversion of a land rover for him, since whatever he gets next may be one of his last vehicle if it lasts and he just needs something that's bullet proof for mostly low-mile local puttering around on rough roads and all around his property and our compost sites.

Our builder is a bit of a ludite, and in retrospect, I should have known that a computer on wheels would be an uphill battle. But aside from all the little irritations he feels with it (PAAK concerns, minimal physical controls, etc.), he's lost all faith in it as a vehicle he can depend on to be the only one in his household. Early termination of the lease would put us at least $10k under water. In VT, lemon law protection doesn't cover corporately purchased vehicles, but I have considered (and may still) attempt a buyback negotiation.

Our mission as a business is to use no fossil fuels or petroleum prodcuts whenever/wherever possible—we are using R100 (renewable diesel) and B99 (bio diesel) in our 35+ pieces of heavy equipment. We use food-machine grease, bio hydraulic fluid, and many other more expensive alternatives to fossil fuel derived products. We accept some level of added inconvenience and expense in order to do so, but I would agree that our experience with these trucks is absolutely grounds to shed them for something else.

I'm hoping we can limp along until better alternatives exist, or we will trade them for Lightnings/GM trucks (I personally loathe this idea since I simply do not want or feel that I need anything larger or less able to park in our downtown). Our builder probably would have been better off with a Lightning, but at the time leases were literally twice the monthly cost (we got a sweek $599 lease on his 2024 Dual, which was very enticing and pretty much impossible to beat).

I've been tempted lately to see if Rivian might be willing to buy all four back and give us a deal on Gen 2s—which I doubt they would do, but it would go a long way in restoring my faith in their business. I have tried to get their attention about our situation, but mostly through the service side of things—I haven't tried sales/corporate with buyback requests on the table. The sales/leasing process was a shit show for each one of these, but hopefully (for Rivian more than anything) that has improved over the past two years. I may soon find out.
 

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I assume your brake trouble is due to road salting in Vermont? The relative lack of friction braking makes salt related corrosion worse on EVs.
Buffalo resident here. I have similar issues. The brakes don't warm enough to "dry off" in the winter, and salt water corrodes the pads to the rotors overnight. When I leave in the morning I've seen the yellow "power bar" on the dash reach ~30-40% up before the truck will move and when it lets go it's loud enough to wake people up in the house.

I'm also 2 sets of 4 dampers deep into the truck at 41k miles.

I've said almost since I bought it that it was a truck designed by people that have never used a truck before. They knew the shape, but didn't understand the workflows, environments, or abuse cases that they live in. It's an excellent adventure toy, but reliable work tool it is not. I can be made to work but you have to will it into usefulness, it doesn't lend itself that way naturally or for very long.
 

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Perhaps a bit of luck of the draw, but I have an early VIN 2022 R1T that has only had the damper issue (all replaced free by Rivian with what they called upgraded version). Powered tonneau still working perfectly, had camp speaker replaced for bad battery early on but replacement is great. No brake work, HVAC issues and is the most amazing vehicle I have ever owned. And I live in MI where roads, salt and winter are no joke too. Always useful to know that not every truck is as problem prone.
 
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onesoil

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Thank you for the write up, Brake questions since this seems like a specific anomaly to how you used those vehicles:

Did you turn off blended braking on any of the vehicles (through the infotainment screen)?

If you had it on, we’re you typically at a very high state of charge (which is when the blended braking typically occurs)?

I don’t use it - my 2022 R1T (I’m the original owner) has over 39,000 miles on it and the original brake pads are still at 80% or more.
After the first pad/rotor job at just over 19k, I had the very same thought. This was around a year after they added the blended braking option, and I assumed this may well have been why there was premature failure. I turned this off on my truck and my father's—then my truck needed brakes a few months later at ~23k miles. One thing I noticed was that my truck frequently has almost no regen—even in "ideal" conditions for full regen (~60-70º F ambient/pack temp, ~70% SOC). I have a bunch of photos of my truck having no regen in these conditions. I have brought it up several times, and always gotten the "we can't find anything" response. I notice it especially after AC charging.

I've actually been told to leave blending on, since lack of use can cause more problems (premature rusting/piting/scoring), though this theory doesn't really make sense given how often I've observed regen to be limited (and how often friction brakes are therefore called for, whether blending is on or not).

I have now had to have a second set of pads and rotors on my truck at just over 40k miles, mostly with this setting off. At this point I just leave it on becuase it's more convenient, especially with all the cold temps we have here in the winter.

The most recent brake job that was performed in the field for us by a technician who has been at the Chelsea SC for over 3 years brought about an interesting theory (which he shared with me)—he believes that the calipers don't get enough airflow to clear debris like they do on less aerodynamic vehicles. He believes that in places like Vermont with a lot of dirt roads, pads and rotors wear prematurely due to their not clearing themselves with any frequency during wet driving. He was a former Porsche and Maserati mechanic and said that the big brakes on those significantly outlast the Rivian brakes (which contradicts a frustrating exchange I had with the then service manager at Chelsea when we had our first brake job under 20k miles—which I'll edit and link down below when I get a chance to clean up any personal contact info from the email exchange—it's worth a read).

I actually make a point to use my friction brakes every day now (either by left foot brake dragging once per day, or in the winter when there's no regen, I just try to have at least a couple hard braking stops). This was at the recommendation of one of the Service managers more recently.


Edit: I added a summary of the exchange explaining the sub-20k mile pad rotor job. This service managerwas unfortunately let go—I actually preferred him to his assistant, because he had a more customer-first approach. He was willing to bend silly rules imposed upon him by Rivian in the interest of giving us better service. The new service manager at Chelsea is great, but it's now a further/less convenient option than some newer alternatives. Hudson has been pretty awful with the afformentioned former Chelsea Assistant Service Manager at the helm as the Manager. So far I have a good feeling about what I've experienced at Clifton Park, which is where my vehicle currently is getting 12v (just outside of warranty 😤) and its second full HVAC replacement.
 

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Thanks for this comprehensive history of your Rivian fleet. I went to college in VT, but have been in South Florida for 20 years now. My 2022 92xx R1T is currently at the Miami Service Center as I type for a number of things, some of which you highlight above. They are currently replacing the 3rd set of Front dampers and hydraulic fluid drain/fill, but the rears are still both original. Also zero brake work for me so far at 54k on-road miles. Additional work will likely include half shafts, weak feeling driver door handle, and a broken L2 onboard charger (will only go up to 8 amps). I'm definitely researching 3rd party extended warranty options as unfortunately Florida is not covered by the new Rivian offering.
 

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Awesome write up. Thank you. Can you explain how you went through brakes like that in 20k miles? I’m at almost 100k miles in a model 3 and still not close to replacing them. What’s the difference here? I’m looking at used R1Ts…

Edit - after reading it seems maybe it was either the weather/environment vs brake blending and not actually using enough regen (or a regen glitch?).
 
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onesoil

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I agree with pretty much everything here. I haven't posted about it yet, but I traded in my R1S last week for a Ram RHO for many of the same reasons listed here. I had 35K on it and had quite the list of service issues. Rivian's 180-degree turn on loaners being discretionary and the 3-hour one-way drive to a service center were ultimately the nails in the coffin for me.

My Rivians were great vehicles when they were in service, but I'm hoping my new truck is something I can forget about until I need to go somewhere.
It's our experiences that sadden me. I really wanted these vehicles to be as dependable as the Tacoma I had before this truck, or the Frontier my father had before his early Tesla Model S (a whole other service nightmare). I'm really hoping that they improve component design and sourcing quality in R2 (it seems they likely have) and Gen 3. Gen 2 obviously made significant improvement to many areas of the vehicle, but suspension/brakes don't seem to be significantly improved enough for me to trust them, and they seem to be one of the real killers on these vehicles (from our personal experience, and others' such as yourself).
 

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I've been tempted lately to see if Rivian might be willing to buy all four back and give us a deal on Gen 2s—which I doubt they would do, but it would go a long way in restoring my faith in their business. I have tried to get their attention about our situation, but mostly through the service side of things—I haven't tried sales/corporate with buyback requests on the table. The sales/leasing process was a shit show for each one of these, but hopefully (for Rivian more than anything) that has improved over the past two years. I may soon find out.
Push for buybacks. Push hard.

I was past the NY state Lemon Law time limits and consulted an attorney on mine when I finally hit the wall. Lawyers basically said arbitration is as good as you're going to get because of the situation. I escalated within Rivian through my local service center. Basically said "I need to escalate this to management and start discussing what a buy back looks like". They assigned a regional employee to walk me through the process. The process was pretty straightforward, and if you approach them with the same level headedness of these posts, I think you'll get some traction. I never yelled, and never raised my voice, just presented facts, disappointment, and asked for a resolution.

I gave them options; buy it back with no cash out of pocket. Lease me into a Gen2 with no cash out of pocket, or extend my warranty to 100k and throw in a performance upgrade for free. Those were all "roughly equitable" when compared to the number of days in the shop, the time I spent getting it there, and my cash out of pocket. They went and talked it over internally, and investigated as well. and came back with a "Cash and keep" strategy. Rivian initially offered to move me to a G2 lease, but declined after they saw the negative I was carrying (I offered to cover that portion of unpaid negative flip and they still declined). The final result was that Rivian cut me a $7k check in exchange for me not pursuing arbitration or Lemon Law return on this vehicle for any existing open items. I agreed at the time, but in retrospect I should have chosen arbitration, as the same problems continue to be problems much as you've experienced.

To be clear, they told me at every single step of that process that I had the right to go to arbitration if I didn't like the way things were going. They didn't hide behind it at all, and honestly almost welcomed it. They were exceptionally easy to work with, although very hard negotiators, were generally pleasant to speak to on the phone, and were never condescending or rude. For as many ways as either of the parties could have derailed it, it remained remarkably civil and solution oriented.

Much like you, I would consider another Rivian because of how they've handled my issues alone. I can't imagine this level of shit show of vehicle/service with Ford or GM. I had a lemon of a Focus back in '12, and Ford customer service was closer to a carnival than a company, while Rivian has been overwhelmingly easy to deal with......even if we shouldn't have had to.
 
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onesoil

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Perhaps a bit of luck of the draw, but I have an early VIN 2022 R1T that has only had the damper issue (all replaced free by Rivian with what they called upgraded version). Powered tonneau still working perfectly, had camp speaker replaced for bad battery early on but replacement is great. No brake work, HVAC issues and is the most amazing vehicle I have ever owned. And I live in MI where roads, salt and winter are no joke too. Always useful to know that not every truck is as problem prone.
I definitely hear people like you and admit to feeling a bit jealous—I wish we could say the same with even one of our four trucks!
 

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onesoil

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Awesome write up. Thank you. Can you explain how you went through brakes like that in 20k miles? I’m at almost 100k miles in a model 3 and still not close to replacing them. What’s the difference here? I’m looking at used R1Ts…

Edit - after reading it seems maybe it was either the weather/environment vs brake blending and not actually using enough regen (or a regen glitch?).
If you read my post a few above yours, I go into more detail. I'm currently backing the most recent theory proposed by a mobile tech doing our fifth brake job—I think the aero design doesn't allow for debris to be cleared like most other vehicles when driving in the wet. This, combined with our corrosive winter environment (so much salt use in our area—it's awful) and many dirt roads seem to be a brake killer.

And we've trid all the things—turning off blended regen so I'm not unknowingly dragging brakes a lot, making sure I use friction brakes intentionally every day/few days, physically washing my calipers as best I can with some frequency, etc. We don't drive these things aggessively or hard either—my father and our builder in particular drive like the quintissential "old grandpa" (which my dad is, officially). It really doesn't make sense... and this was the point of my exchange with the service manager on the first brake job: we have never seen this premature wear in our climate or with other heavy EVs (such as my father's early Model S). If you look back on that post, I link a summary of the email exchange.
 
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onesoil

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Thanks for this comprehensive history of your Rivian fleet. I went to college in VT, but have been in South Florida for 20 years now. My 2022 92xx R1T is currently at the Miami Service Center as I type for a number of things, some of which you highlight above. They are currently replacing the 3rd set of Front dampers and hydraulic fluid drain/fill, but the rears are still both original. Also zero brake work for me so far at 54k on-road miles. Additional work will likely include half shafts, weak feeling driver door handle, and a broken L2 onboard charger (will only go up to 8 amps). I'm definitely researching 3rd party extended warranty options as unfortunately Florida is not covered by the new Rivian offering.
Yikes! All out of pocket? How much is that going to run you? This is exactly the trap I'm holing people don't fall into! And I can't imagine a more comparitively vehicle—friendly environment than Florida... Except perhaps the salty air and humidity/heat? I have no experience, just speculating since it's flat and doesn't have winters to speak of. Is that where your truck has spent its whole life?
 
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onesoil

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Buffalo resident here. I have similar issues. The brakes don't warm enough to "dry off" in the winter, and salt water corrodes the pads to the rotors overnight. When I leave in the morning I've seen the yellow "power bar" on the dash reach ~30-40% up before the truck will move and when it lets go it's loud enough to wake people up in the house.

I'm also 2 sets of 4 dampers deep into the truck at 41k miles.

I've said almost since I bought it that it was a truck designed by people that have never used a truck before. They knew the shape, but didn't understand the workflows, environments, or abuse cases that they live in. It's an excellent adventure toy, but reliable work tool it is not. I can be made to work but you have to will it into usefulness, it doesn't lend itself that way naturally or for very long.
After the first few wintery days I have always said it was "another vehicle designed by people living in California" (the othersbeing Teslas). Sure, they bring them to AK for some testing, but they don't know what living through a winter is like. The snow and ice buildup in various places alone is infuriating. The lack of proper de-icing/windshield wiping when it's slushy/salty/damp/cold can be downright dangerous. And there are so many points of failure that continual salt/slush conditions seem to bring about (I had wheel speed sensor/harness failure that threw me into turtle mode four times before it was finally fully fixed—the sensor harness plug was laughably poorly corrosion-proofed given its location right on the front damper leading to the front hub).

I could go on and on (and clearly did 🤣). I wish they were more receptive to my feedback about these things—I have tried (and failed) to get anyone's attention in any meaningful way.
 
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onesoil

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I assume your brake trouble is due to road salting in Vermont? The relative lack of friction braking makes salt related corrosion worse on EVs.

The other common failure modes I think are shared by me and most folks on this forum. I'm cautiously optimistic that the R2 platform addresses them.
If you look back a few posts, I go into more detail about this. The most compelling theory I've heard is that the brakes don't get enough airflow to clear themselves under wet driving conditions. This was floated by a field tech on our most recent pad/rotor replacement (our 5th such replacement, also just under 20k miles). I have personally tried my best to make sure my pads/rotors are cleared, though I can't say for certain that the other three trucks have had the same diligence since I'm not putting the miles on them. Mine just needed a second set of pads and rotors at a little over 40k miles (the last 20 of whichI was very consciously trying to use them enough, but not too much, and wash the calipers as best I could now and then).

There's no question that VT is hard on vehicles, I'm just shocked out how quickly we're going through brakes (and at $1800 per brake job, it really adds cost quickly).
 
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onesoil

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Thank you for taking the time to post this with all the details. I have a first gen R1T and echo the majority of your issues and concerns. Love the truck, but our of 50+ vehicles I've owned, it is by far the most unreliable one. I only have about 18k miles on mine and have had all dampers and jounce lines replaced, plus many other issues.

Question for you: I recently noticed that when the HVAC is running, there is a gurgling noise coming from under the truck. I'm afraid that the wet carpet issue is coming. Is there anything I can do proactively to prevent it? Is there a way for me to check that the draining lines for the HVAC are not getting clogged?

Like you, I love the truck but I'm questioning if keeping it beyond the warranty would be a wise decision...

Thanks again for your post!
I've asked, but haven't gotten a straight answer about whether there's anything preventative that can be done. My understanding is that the condensate drain fails, which backs water up to the HVAC unit initially, and then that can crack, which will then back water up into the cabin. Apparently it doesn't always fail in the same way, and isn't visible. My understanding is that they haven't "fixed" the issue yet (at least with a redesigned part). Ironically, this issue cropped up on a Gen 1 loaner I had while mine was in getting its HVAC fixed the first time.

If you have rubber mats, check under them frequently. If you start to notice an off smell (like damp socks/wet laundry that you've forgotten to move to the drier), check your carpets. If you don't have rubber mats, the carpets seem to dry more easily so it can go undedected longer (this seemed to be the case with the loaner that I had for well over a month, only noticing its HVAC issue towards the end of me having it). Also, if you stop noticing puddles forming under the truck while parked in hot/humid weather, that can be a sign.

With a dog a young child, I use dog mode/climate hold/pre-cooling a lot, so I may stress the HVAC more as a result, but being the greenhouse that it is, I'm not going to change my ways on that. If anything, I wish they hadn't kneecapped the climate hold feature so you could put it on a timer and it would stay on even when you cycle between drive and park... It's very annoying that they make you turn it on each time you put the vehicle in park.


I made a thread about this issue a while ago that has more information and you could probably ask others about whether they know of any preventative measures... I was sad to discover that several people have had repeat failures (I am now one such person).

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...eck-your-carpets-for-signs-of-moisture.48540/
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