Had call with Rivian Guide, delay on Ocean Coast interior

[747 Whalewatcher]

The Rivian design team nailed the Forest Edge interior. It's the perfect tone of green and will compliment a Midnight Black exterior. I am looking forward to seeing a member post photos of this combo.

My "First Mile" drive back in October was with Midnight and Forest Edge. Not sure this helps much, but the FE was definitely very complementary.

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[Zoidz]

For the future solid state batteries will be a huge upgrade! So 2, 3, 5 years from now when that technology becomes more mainstream maybe I will put in for another Rivian with more range.

What do solid state batteries have in common with Fusion Reactors? Solid state batteries have been 2 or 3 years away for the past 10 years, just like fusion reactors have been 10 years away for the past 40 years, lol.

 

[Blueassassin]

How much trouble could you get in for building a small nuclear reactor for the gear tunnel?

 

[Zoidz]

curious: did they happen to explain why that specific interior was delayed? I get the supply chain is a mess but it seems oddly specific to an interior choice... and now I'm wondering about other, specific interiors that could be delayed (mine is Forest Edge, which I hear is bangin).

It's very possibly/probable that it is a Titanium pigment supply chain shortage:

- White pigments generally contain Titanium Dioxide (TiO2)
- Ti and TiO2 prices have been skyrocketing through the the COVID mess due to Ti and TiO2 shortages (and getting worse since Ukraine is apparently a raw Ti supplier)
- TiO2 for pigments has been traditionally sourced as turning scrap from the aerospace industry, the shortage was predicted through at least the end of 2021.
- Aerospace production took a huge dive during the pandemic shutdowns.

TiO2 shortage would explain both the delays and the price difference.

"the average import price for titanium scrap increased from $2.9 per kg in January 2021 to $4.1 in April 2021. During this period, the import price for titanium dioxide increased from $2.6 to $3.2 per kg, while the import price for titanium fluctuated within the range of $11.3 – $14.7 per kg"

"In the first half of 2021, prices for titanium and its derivatives shot up in response to rising demand and a drop in titanium mining last year, as well as titanium shaving stocks reduction. The rebound in the chemical and aerospace industries is a key driver for the rising demand for the metal. "

"The growth in demand for titanium from the paint and varnish industries remains the main market driver. Titanium dioxide is one of the most sought-after pigments and fillers in the paint, coating and plastics industries. The demand for paints and varnishes is growing markedly due to the construction boom and the recovery of the automotive industry. The rising trend in the construction of super-large container ships will be relevant in the medium term and should sharpen the need for paints with titanium dioxide."

 

[Autolycus]

How much trouble could you get in for building a small nuclear reactor for the gear tunnel?

Ask Christopher Collett, Cynthia Nixon, and John Lithgow. (yes, it's an 80s reference)

 

[willpollock]

precisely the type of granular answer I was looking for. thanks so so much!

 

[willpollock]

My "First Mile" drive back in October was with Midnight and Forest Edge. Not sure this helps much, but the FE was definitely very complementary.

just a gorgeous vehicle. can't wait to see it in person!

 

[747 Whalewatcher]

just a gorgeous vehicle. can't wait to see it in person!

For sure!... The color was very deep, with a lot of dimension... I switched to MB right after my test drive. As an early pre-order holder, but with Ocean Coast, not sure what to do anymore. Communication from Rivian remains appalling.

 

[willpollock]

For sure!... The color was very deep, with a lot of dimension... I switched to MB right after my test drive. As an early pre-order holder, but with Ocean Coast, not sure what to do anymore. Communication from Rivian remains appalling.

this is my main gripe exactly. I give props and leeway for a startup electric-car company trying to ramp production during supply-chain hell but the lack of communication is deeply frustrating. here's what I wonder: if other interior colors might have the same problem down the line. I have forest edge and everything I've heard/read is that the color is sublime. have you thought about switching to that?

 

[sub]

It's very possibly/probable that it is a Titanium pigment supply chain shortage:

- White pigments generally contain Titanium Dioxide (TiO2)
- Ti and TiO2 prices have been skyrocketing through the the COVID mess due to Ti and TiO2 shortages (and getting worse since Ukraine is apparently a raw Ti supplier)
- TiO2 for pigments has been traditionally sourced as turning scrap from the aerospace industry, the shortage was predicted through at least the end of 2021.
- Aerospace production took a huge dive during the pandemic shutdowns.

TiO2 shortage would explain both the delays and the price difference.

"the average import price for titanium scrap increased from $2.9 per kg in January 2021 to $4.1 in April 2021. During this period, the import price for titanium dioxide increased from $2.6 to $3.2 per kg, while the import price for titanium fluctuated within the range of $11.3 – $14.7 per kg"

"In the first half of 2021, prices for titanium and its derivatives shot up in response to rising demand and a drop in titanium mining last year, as well as titanium shaving stocks reduction. The rebound in the chemical and aerospace industries is a key driver for the rising demand for the metal. "

"The growth in demand for titanium from the paint and varnish industries remains the main market driver. Titanium dioxide is one of the most sought-after pigments and fillers in the paint, coating and plastics industries. The demand for paints and varnishes is growing markedly due to the construction boom and the recovery of the automotive industry. The rising trend in the construction of super-large container ships will be relevant in the medium term and should sharpen the need for paints with titanium dioxide."

I doubt it.

There can't possibly be more than 1KG of white pigment needed for the seats (it is probably way less). So if that was the problem, they could just offer the pigment supplier 2x the going rate(an extra $3.20), and tell buyers they will have pay an extra $5 if they want ocean coast before the shortage ends.

I guarantee there would be absolutely no customer pushback over increasing the ocean coast interior from the standard price to $5. Even after promising to honor the original pricing.

 

[747 Whalewatcher]

this is my main gripe exactly. I give props and leeway for a startup electric-car company trying to ramp production during supply-chain hell but the lack of communication is deeply frustrating. here's what I wonder: if other interior colors might have the same problem down the line. I have forest edge and everything I've heard/read is that the color is sublime. have you thought about switching to that?

I really liked FE and would take it over Black, but Ocean Coast is very similar to the interior in my current Model S, which I really like. My biggest disappointment stems from the lack of transparency. Just waiting for Rivian to reach out to me directly and not with a "blast email". As an early pre-order holder, they should have done that by now, but rather keep contacting and delivering to those who ordered 6, 12 to 18 months after those of us who ordered in the first few weeks & months.

 

[Zoidz]

How much trouble could you get in for building a small nuclear reactor for the gear tunnel?

Quad reactor model coming in 2027.

 

[Craigins]

Quad reactor model coming in 2027.

Nice, each motor has its own microreactor.

Anyone know the maximum draw for the quad motors? Nasa is working on some kW-10MW micro reactors for space exploration. Let's retrofit an R1T! Although it would probably need to be towed in a trailer.

 

[Zoidz]

I doubt it.

There can't possibly be more than 1KG of white pigment needed for the seats (it is probably way less). So if that was the problem, they could just offer the pigment supplier 2x the going rate(an extra $3.20), and tell buyers they will have pay an extra $5 if they want ocean coast before the shortage ends.

I guarantee there would be absolutely no customer pushback over increasing the ocean coast interior from the standard price to $5. Even after promising to honor the original pricing.

Even if it were that simple, which it's not even close to being that simple, offering 2x the going rate means nothing if other large customers have guaranteed supply contracts and the pigment is in short supply. PPG Industries produces tens of millions of gallons of paint a year - Rivian is not going to be able outbid them for bulk supply. Rivian is literally a single drop in a bucket in the supply chain. Rivian isn't negotiating the purchase TiO2 for their vinyl, oops, vegan leather. Their 2nd/3rd tier suppliers, as well as the molded plastic supplier(s) are competing in a global market to get a fraction of what they all need.

 

[LaunchGreen]

It's very possibly/probable that it is a Titanium pigment supply chain shortage:

- White pigments generally contain Titanium Dioxide (TiO2)
- Ti and TiO2 prices have been skyrocketing through the the COVID mess due to Ti and TiO2 shortages (and getting worse since Ukraine is apparently a raw Ti supplier)
- TiO2 for pigments has been traditionally sourced as turning scrap from the aerospace industry, the shortage was predicted through at least the end of 2021.
- Aerospace production took a huge dive during the pandemic shutdowns.

TiO2 shortage would explain both the delays and the price difference.

"the average import price for titanium scrap increased from $2.9 per kg in January 2021 to $4.1 in April 2021. During this period, the import price for titanium dioxide increased from $2.6 to $3.2 per kg, while the import price for titanium fluctuated within the range of $11.3 – $14.7 per kg"

"In the first half of 2021, prices for titanium and its derivatives shot up in response to rising demand and a drop in titanium mining last year, as well as titanium shaving stocks reduction. The rebound in the chemical and aerospace industries is a key driver for the rising demand for the metal. "

"The growth in demand for titanium from the paint and varnish industries remains the main market driver. Titanium dioxide is one of the most sought-after pigments and fillers in the paint, coating and plastics industries. The demand for paints and varnishes is growing markedly due to the construction boom and the recovery of the automotive industry. The rising trend in the construction of super-large container ships will be relevant in the medium term and should sharpen the need for paints with titanium dioxide."

Rivian has repeatedly stated that there are no delays and we have tight delivery windows for OC coming up.

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