The Max Pack Will Most Likely Be Canceled - IMO

[mkhuffman]

its been shown that weight is not as much a factor in range as in Aero. With that battery pack in conserve mode peeps are going to get 400+ out of a charge. take the Ford lightning Lat for instance. it weights less than the R1T but its Aero is terrible that is why its not getting the range of the R1T

I agree. Weight means it takes more energy to accelerate, but some of that can be "recovered" with regen when slowing down. Once you are at a constant speed, weight has no impact. Of course you are never really at a constant speed because of hills, traffic, whatever. Still, for highway range, aerodynamics is king by far.

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[ja_kub_sz]

@Dukecj I have 2 Max Pack orders waiting ?

 

[MountainBikeDude]

@Dukecj I have 2 Max Pack orders waiting ?

Good man!

 

[jemkewl]

There's nothing surprising about that though, is there? Max Pack isn't yet available, simple as that.

Seemed pretty surprising to these forums and my friends that have had a large pack reservations for 2+ years and still don't have a delivery date.

 

[jbronkoR1T]

Seemed pretty surprising to these forums and my friends that have had a large pack reservations for 2+ years and still don't have a delivery date.

that's fair, didn't quite grok what you meant at first. I guess they are just making room to speed up my res!

 

[rydb]

Stick to 55 mph roads. Ultimately will be faster than going freeway speeds.

I found this very odd, but I was going less than 60 mph and it was still not improving the energy usage much at all. I thought about getting an absolutely full charge on the one long trip I attempted (one I knew was very marginal so had a backup option to tow it convoying) but I really don't think I could have made the next charger at any speed but maybe 35 mph. I need to go do some more testing at various speeds on as level of terrain as I can find, there and back averaged.

 

[zipzag]

Stick to 55 mph roads. Ultimately will be faster than going freeway speeds.

Dive fast on interstates to below 20%. Charge to ~70%. Repeat.

 

[Yossarian]

Rivian canceling the R1T Max is certainly a possibility - they've already deep-sixed the R1S Max, though there is allegedly a "longer range" battery for the SUV under development. I'd be surprised if the R1T Max is canceled though.

The Max version has completed EPA Cert testing, which would need to have been done at the least on a production-representative car. That means that not only is the design work complete, most and probably all of the production engineering is also done. Rivian is also continuing to accept reservations for the Max; It's unlikely they would do that (and actually, potentially illegal) if there were no plans to actually deliver the model.

I'm sure that Rivian would prefer that as many pre-increase R1T Max reservation holders convert their order to the Long Range. This keeps the customer happy, or at least, less dissatisfied. I'm sure that it's also not lost on Rivian that each pre-March Max order that gets converted to a LR means less of a loss than would otherwise be the case.

My guess is that the Max will start to be delivered sometime around mid-2023, but not in meaningful numbers until closer to the end of the year. Rivian has their hands full right now getting the R1T Adventure LR up to true production numbers, a task made more complicated by adding the R1S to the mix. The R1T Max would be unneeded distraction, which is why I think its delivery will be pushed a bit.

 

[sacramentoelectric]

Rivian canceling the R1T Max is certainly a possibility - they've already deep-sixed the R1S Max, though there is allegedly a "longer range" battery for the SUV under development. I'd be surprised if the R1T Max is canceled though.

The Max version has completed EPA Cert testing, which would need to have been done at the least on a production-representative car. That means that not only is the design work complete, most and probably all of the production engineering is also done. Rivian is also continuing to accept reservations for the Max; It's unlikely they would do that (and actually, potentially illegal) if there were no plans to actually deliver the model.

I'm sure that Rivian would prefer that as many pre-increase R1T Max reservation holders convert their order to the Long Range. This keeps the customer happy, or at least, less dissatisfied. I'm sure that it's also not lost on Rivian that each pre-March Max order that gets converted to a LR means less of a loss than would otherwise be the case.

My guess is that the Max will start to be delivered sometime around mid-2023, but not in meaningful numbers until closer to the end of the year. Rivian has their hands full right now getting the R1T Adventure LR up to true production numbers, a task made more complicated by adding the R1S to the mix. The R1T Max would be unneeded distraction, which is why I think its delivery will be pushed a bit.

Where did you read that the Max Pack completed EPA testing? Maybe my Google-fu is weak but I can't find that anywhere. The Large Pack has been tested but I don't think the Max Pack has been.

 

[mkg3]

its been shown that weight is not as much a factor in range as in Aero. With that battery pack in conserve mode peeps are going to get 400+ out of a charge. take the Ford lightning Lat for instance. it weights less than the R1T but its Aero is terrible that is why its not getting the range of the R1T

Where?

Clearly aero has an impact but more as a function of speed since drag force increases as velocity squared. To move the heavier vehicle requires more energy. Accelerating heavier vehicles and stopping them also require more energy.

There are many factors and to compare the F150 range with R1T's just due to aero alone would be a mistake.

 

[IHScout]

Which is, according to tid bits here and there, meant to be a more suburban larger style SUV.

Anywhere you can point me to that has that information or leak? Just curious as I have not heard that before. Although, I don't have any connections with Rivian via friends or family, so that could be why! Thanks.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Anywhere you can point me to that has that information or leak? Just curious as I have not heard that before. Although, I don't have any connections with Rivian via friends or family, so that could be why! Thanks.

I think this was my bad. I had recalled speculation Rivian may make a larger SUV beyond that of the S, but the X is reported/speculated to be smaller than the S, and more Rally inspired.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-rivian-r1x-motors-ev-power-price-on-sale/

There goes my max pack integration prediction... Although, Rivian could use it in a Sprinter style R1V "Rivian Adventure Van"
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2025-rivian-adventure-van-electric-off-road-overland-camper-rv/

 

[SASSquatch]

I could definitely see them doing that as well. I would be very curious to know what percentage of those 98,000 reservations are max packs. One could definitely take their complete silence as a bad sign, but we also see here every day so many large pack reservations from 2-3 years ago who have still not heard from a guide or even gotten invited to an drive. So to me it’s still just a toss up as to who gets trucks.

A case could also be made that the best business decision for Rivian’s shareholders would be to produce as many post 3/1 orders as possible, to maximize profits. Obviously that would piss off all the pre 3/1 orders but depending on how many of each they have, they could consistently do some of each and make their books look slightly better.

I'm with you. I'm a Rivian shareholder who is currently sitting on a ton of losses but I'm looking towards the future.

With that in mind, I have a conflict of interest. As a shareholder I want Rivian to focus on improving their margins, which means they need to sell as many post-March 1 vehicles as possible.

As a future owner, I want my R1T!

I'm in a situation where I can afford to wait, as long as it isn't past 1H of 2023 (my original Max Pack estimate) and "take one for the team."

Rivian has the advantage of being very well capitalized and so they aren't starving for capital like Tesla was at this stage of their production ramp. That means Rivian can afford to deliver pre and post March 1 vehicles at a pace that won't piss off early reservation holders which Rivian needs to make sure that they don't do. They need to preserve and grow their brand loyalty if they are going to survive in an increasingly crowded EV segment.

A lot of folks think Rivian is competing against Tesla, GM, and Ford - and to an extent, I think that is true. But I think yo also have to lump Jeep in there as well since it is the best selling ICE adventure vehicle currently and has an enthusiastic and loyal customer base.

Rivian is trying to take the impractical and environmentally unsustainable adventure vehicle model that Jeep represents and replace it with a practical, environmentally conscious, and even sport-car fast and fun, model that is reflected in the R1T. That is a lot of use-cases rolled into one vehicle so there is massive potential for Rivian to attract buyers who otherwise would need to purchase separate vehicles - but at the same time there is competition coming (Jeep has an EV on the way) so they can't afford to poison the well by pissing off their most loyal customers who are enduring years of waiting.

 

[kizamybute']

Most people will not be willing to spend $10k for the additional 100 miles of range. It will be rarely used by the average person and 300 miles of range is plenty for your typical EV road trip.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Tesla charged around $10,000 to upgrade to the 85 kwh pack in the beginning and MOST went with it over a 60 kwh battery pack. Once they improved efficiency of the vehicles, that allowed them to get more range out of the same size battery, and they started offering the 75 kwh battery, which had more range than the original 85 kwh battery, it was an attractive offering. Despite that, MOST people still chose the "long range" or 100 kwh battery optioned car.

300 miles in range is not something most people need on a daily basis. But, for EV's to replace ICE vehicles, they need to be capable of all things. They don't put 5 gallon gas tanks in cars just because people don't need more than that on a regular daily basis. It's not about the daily needs, it's about the occasions that come up when you do need that extra range. Likely, for some sort of long distance travel. That's when people use more of their 20 gallon gas tanks and will use more of their larger battery packs. Most people don't want to have to go rent a car to travel.

Plus, having the extra range is just nice to have, simply for those that don't want to charge every single day. Many, that don't have chargers at home, can't charge every single day. Or at least it's not practical for them to do so. I personally rarely ever need 300 miles in range, but wouldn't have bought the vehicle if it didn't have it, because, occasionally, I do need 300 miles in range.

And remember, 300 miles is EPA rated range. For most people, that don't want to "think about it", they just want to drive normally at "keep up with traffic" speeds, the 300 mile EPA range ends up closer to 225 miles in real world highway travel (75-85 MPH). Furthermore, for those in cold weather climates, range takes a HUGE hit in the winter. 300 miles is then probably closer to 175. And, as noted previously, for those that want to tow, realistic towing range is probably just 130 miles.

For many, 300 miles is just fine and they'll sell plenty of them. But, there will probably be at least as many people that will choose the $10,000 option for a larger battery and more range. I was one of them, until I changed my configuration to get my truck sooner.

 

[Ducky]

Clearly the trend in the industry and customer interest is in enhanced range. If you are going to do any serious off-roading in the boonies, towing or long distance driving it is beneficial and highly desirable. Larger batteries do a great deal to reduce range anxiety. I bought a Model S 100D only when I could get the 100 kWh battery and was more than willing to pay-up for it. I have never regretted the choice. In my opinion, it is very unlikely Rivian will drop the 400+ mile range battery option especially since Tesla, Chevy and Ford are all expected to offer extended range pickups in the near future.

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