GM adopts Tesla's NACS standard! Munro begs Rivian to switch

[BeanEW]

With Musk's personality, he will drive his true competitors to bankruptcy just to prove that he is "RIGHT". Remember that he said Rivian will be bankrupted!! Once he got monopoly on the charging network; Rivian, and other automakers, will be the 2nd class citizen and who knows what he will do.

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[2025R1S]

How well did that consortium work out for us with CCS1?

I don’t care what anyone says; CCS is trash and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

You seem to think I should have a problem with 1 company that designs an ultra reliable, ADA compliant, user friendly charging solution.

You’re not following. It’s not a standard at all because only 1 company uses it and controls it. Tesla has co-opted the word “standard” and most of you are blindly joining them. It’s a Tesla brand plug.

You are obviously free to prefer whatever plug and charging network you like. I’m not even commenting on the quality or reliability because Tesla has done a good job with their network so far. But it’s shortsighted to fall in line and hand Musk control over the nation’s charging infrastructure. And that is what would happen if Tesla‘s plug is considered a standard without being controlled by a consortium or independent body.

 

[2025R1S]

800v tech might be the future, but it’s not mainstream yet.

In fact, with the DC to DC converter - the 800v cars often charge slower than 400v cars.

Can you at least admit that CCS1 is less user friendly and that consumers will require a more user friendly CCS design if CCS is expected to ever take off?

Thanks for the clarification - I did not get into the weeds on different implementation of CCS-1 vs 2.

NACS is not superior technically to CCS-1 and CCS-1 has more applications beyond DCFS.

Not a single NACS application currently in operation supports 800v architecture which is the future for all OEMS not named Tesla. Not sure how that is technically superior even if it has the capability to do it. When the entity in control of 99% of the NACS infrastructure can decide what features the consumer will and will not get, how is that superior?

Bi-directional charging? Musk says not worth it.
800v Architecture? Musk says not worth the cost.

 

[RWerksman]

This is hilarious. Our roads are in such bad shape as it is. I can’t imagine them affording to install EV infrastructure in the roads - God
Have mercy on us if we need to depend on them

??

/s

 

[COdogman]

How well did that consortium work out for us with CCS1?

I don’t care what anyone says; CCS is trash and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

You seem to think I should have a problem with 1 company that designs an ultra reliable, ADA compliant, user friendly charging solution.

I never said there was a problem with any company designing anything, did I? I said it’s not a standard and should not be made one as long as a single company controls it.

CCS is far from perfect. Tesla’s plug is also far from perfect, despite what many here seem to think. How many Tesla chargers can provide 800v charging for the EV6, Ioniq 5, GM EV trucks, and supposedly the cybertruck?

 

[Zorg]

High voltage can be retrofitted to Tesla SC supposedly. Not that I care

 

[WSea]

So, now every Ford vehicle and every Chevy Bolt will be charging at a supercharger instead of the RAN???? No more crowds!!!!!!

Never seen a crowd at a RAN charger except for a Rivian club event. Ford and Bolts can't charge at RANs yet although 1 of each did at Coos Bay when it first came on line

 

[TexasBob]

Well that's definitely getting ahead of things. Here are 2022 car sales number by brand, totaled by Tesla-Ford-GM and Everybody Else (still in CCS camp as of this comment):

Tesla gang: 4,330,874
Non-Tesla gang: 7,471,012

Tesla obviously sells the most EVs in the US, but Hyundai/Kia and VAG are doing very well in the EV segment compared to everybody else. They both have significant interests in CCS because that's the standard in all of their other major markets.

That is a super odd way to look at things Here is a different way to look at the same data:

CCS1 sales by companies clinging to the old standard = 158,630
Everything Else =11,643,256
CCS1 = (US sales excluding Tesla, Ford, GM)
Everything Else = (Non-US sales that use different charging standards, plus US Tesla, Ford and GM)

Of how about the more actually relevant data for US market:
NACS Companies = 604,253 or 79.1% market share
Non-NACS = 158,630 or 20.9% market share.

Companies are going to use CCS2 in Europe, GB/T in China, and a different standard in North America. The only question is whether the different standard will be CCS1 or NACS. 79% of the market says NACS.

 

[scottf200]

https://autelenergy.com/

 

[COdogman]

High voltage can be retrofitted to Tesla SC supposedly. Not that I care

You don’t care because it doesn’t affect you, yet you believe it should be the standard for everyone else? “Supposedly“ able to retrofit = they don’t have it.

 

[Autolycus]

That is a super odd way to look at things Here is a different way to look at the same data:

CCS1 sales by companies clinging to the old standard = 158,630
Everything Else =11,643,256
CCS1 = (US sales excluding Tesla, Ford, GM)
Everything Else = (Non-US sales that use different charging standards, plus US Tesla, Ford and GM)

Of how about the more actually relevant data for US market:
NACS Companies = 604,253 or 79.1% market share
Non-NACS = 158,630 or 20.9% market share.

Companies are going to use CCS2 in Europe, GB/T in China, and a different standard in North America. The only question is whether the different standard will be CCS1 or NACS. 79% of the market says NACS.

It's not odd at all. Do you think Toyota, Honda, Subura, Dodge, Jeep, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Kia, VW, Audi, and Porsche aren't going to take larger and larger EV market share as fans of those brands finally decide to switch? EV market share is TINY compared to the overall auto market. Those manufacturers are titans in the industry. Your entire argument relies on Tesla continuing to sell 60+% of all EVs sold in the US. If you believe that's going to happen, I've got a seat on a ship to Mars leaving next year that I'd like to sell you.

 

[Zorg]

You don’t care because it doesn’t affect you, yet you believe it should be the standard for everyone else? “Supposedly“ able to retrofit = they don’t have it.

It doesn't affect any Rivian owner. So a complete non issue for time being. Tesla will upgrade its SC to high voltage for the CT. So again, not an issue.

 

[COdogman]

It doesn't affect any Rivian owner. So a complete non issue for time being. Tesla will upgrade its SC to high voltage for the CT. So again, not an issue.

So they don’t have it. Now you seem to know for sure the chargers are capable though? All of them?

 

[Zorg]

So they don’t have it. Now you seem to know for sure the chargers are capable though? All of them?

You really are grasping for anything to make your point, aren't you? Gonna be fun to watch your reaction when RJ goes on Twitter to announce Rivian adoption of NACS.

 

[MP3Mike]

Well, the White House issued a statement Friday saying Tesla could get federal dollars, but they must have CCS. The plot thickens. Lol

“The White House on Friday said electric-vehicle charging stations using Tesla (TSLA.O) standard plugs would be eligible for billions of dollars in federal subsidies as long as they included the U.S. charging standard connection, CCS, as well.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/wh...ral-dollars-long-they-include-ccs-2023-06-09/

That is just reiterating the policy the way it has always been. Tesla could always get money if they installed CCS and NACS paired. (And meet all the other requirements.)

And now, in addition to receiving fees for charging on his network, Musk would be getting a licensing fee for every charge port and every charger installed in the US?

No, there are no licensing fees for putting a NACS connector on a charger or inlet on a vehicle.

800v Architecture? Musk says not worth the cost.

I'm pretty sure he said it wasn't worth converting the existing vehicles to 800v. But newer vehicles will use 800v when it makes sense. Like the Cybertruck and Semi. 800v is really only necessary for vehicles with large batteries. (At least when using NACS, when using CCS you have to go 800v to get more than ~180kW out of a charger.)

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