How to Improve a Rivian R1S’s Elevation Sound System With Simple EQ Changes (Equipment Measured Tests & Results)

[superfluid]

however, given @superfluid experience and knowledge of the different cabin size & shape of the R1T - would you be able to venture a bit and let us know which of the setting you suggest here are most likely to differ (and in what direction) on the R1T?

It's hard to say because not only is the R1T cabin a lot lower volume, it has fewer speakers to generate sound waves from different positions, and it doesn't have a subwoofer. I did some back-of-the-napkin math using the approximate dimensions of the R1S cabin to see if I could predict where I'd find issues like resonances or standing waves. It didn't really work; I couldn't say with confidence which peaks and dips were caused by the cabin's specific dimensions or the number of speakers because I couldn't change any of those variables. That makes it hard to work backward and predict the R1T's behavior. This really means that someone should measure an R1T so we can compare the data. Sorry I couldn't be more help on this one.

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[superfluid]

Thank you for this. I miss the days of CD players and good sounding stereo setups. I don't want to stream music I already own.

I'd love to know your home setup if you don't mind sharing.

Sure.

• Front speakers: Revel F208 and C208
• Side surround: Revel M105
• Top front/top rear: Revel M80XC
• Subwoofers: Dual Power Sound Audio 15Vs
• Receiver/processor: JBL Synthesis SDR-35
• External amplification: Buckeye Amps Hypex NC502MP 4-channel amp
• Turntable: Gemini PT-2000 with Ortfon Red cartridge
• Phono pre-amp: iFi Zen Phono
• Digital source: TIDAL Connect

 

[superfluid]

Your settings bring amazing clarity but to my unsophisticated ears, sounds like I’m losing some mid range? I may just be used to poor settings.
Here is a pic of my EQ screen and Rivian speaker covers. I haven’t taken my speaker covers off to see if I have the original Meridian set up.

Glad to hear they helped.

But yes, I think your ears are telling you the correct story about the midrange. The problem is caused by the big 20 dB imbalance centered on 1 kHz. Cutting 1 kHz means that you bring down the 500-900 Hz range to improve clarity, but that drags 1-1.5 kHz even lower than it already is, which is where much midrange information lives.

For me, it was a trade-off; improve clarity and lose midrange, or improve midrange and decrease clarity. I went for clarity.

I believe all of that is the result of improper crossover design for the Elevation speakers.

You could try boosting 2 kHz to try and recover some midrange. I decided to boost it only +1 dB because boosting much higher created another imbalance to my ears: an imbalance between 1 and 2 kHz.

 

[usofrob]

I think this whole discussion has been great. And I'm very happy to see this type of analysis. I use a parametric equalizer on my home PC to play my music to match my headphones with quick shortcuts for my two different headphones and my speakers, depending on the need. It's great. But, that's not what I came here to say....

You can have as many equalizers as you want when you prepare your music. So, if you have downloaded copied of your music, you could put them through an equalizer to get them to match the Rivian's speaker profile and save them as new files. Then only use that playlist when in your Rivian. This would be a lot better if they had USB available for music. The only way I know how to do it right now would be via Bluetooth. I'm not sure about the trade off between bitrate and frequency response accuracy.

I've been waiting for Android to support the ability to add your own equalizers via configuration or apps, but I haven't seen it. And I really doubt Apple would ever let you do such a thing. But it would be really nice for all sorts of situations. You could even close the loop and use bluetooth to generate the audio, play it over the speakers and listen to the response on the phone to do your own equalizer profile on the phone for that source. This is my great app idea if they ever allow that access to the audio sub processing in Android.

 

[N7Rivian]

I live near Austin, how much time do you need with the R1T to test it? I have one with the rivian sound system.

 

[J-Flo]

Thanks so much for this analysis superfluid. I visited the forum today precisely because I‘m annoyed enough at the muddy midrange on my R1S (Elevation system) that I came here looking for answers and voila.

What really spurred me to come here is that I’m driving an R1T loaner while my R1S is in for scheduled service. The R1T has the Meridian system and it’s significantly better, with sharper base and midrange response (but still quite a ways from correct to my ears, there’s a dip somewhere in the midrange that is obvious when the volume is cranked)..

I think the system has decent capability but am not sure the Elevation speakers can deliver a real quality performance and the sub seems subpar. Can’t believe what I read here, that the vehicle barfs on a speaker change and refuses to drive. I also am dismayed to read that the pillar speakers shut off when surround is turned off — that’s nuts, have others verified that? I am a bit of an audiophile and usually think the sound is best with no EQ and no or minimal processing. In a vehicle the manufacturer should figure this out with built in digital or hardware crossovers to send treble to the pillar speakers and etc.

I think Rivian can fix or at least improve many of these issues with software. Meanwhile, I am going to to superfluid’s tested EQ corrections when I get my truck back tomorrow.

Does anyone know what BT version and codecs Rivian is running? That also may be part of the problem I’m seeing (I use Apple Music, which I can stream hi-res on my home systems).

Regardless, it seems that the crossover or whatever is causing that terrible drop in signal around 1kHz is likely a piece of hardware that can’t be fixed by software and EQ fixes are just band-aids — perhaps effective as we can get until the car audio wizards figure out how to trick the computer into allowing speakers and amps to be changed.

 

[superfluid]

I live near Austin, how much time do you need with the R1T to test it? I have one with the rivian sound system.

I'd say 1-2 hours. The measurements don't take long. The time is in setting up the mic, getting everything to a default state, etc. If you'd be willing to give up your time for this cause, that'd be quite cool!

 

[superfluid]

One person on Redit attempted this and the vehicle threw a bunch of errors which made it undrivable. I know that the subwoofer replacement can be done without issues.

I read that thread and feel bad for the owner. He did a lot of work for no gain.

Unless the speakers are digital and handshake with the infotainment system via some hidden protocol, power draw seems to be the only way the infotainment system would know that the speakers had been changed. I can understand the need to regulate power draw for safety and perhaps computational reasons (e.g., maybe range estimation is partly based on a predicted rate of infotainment power draw), but it'd be a real shame if Rivian gives us no way to swap speakers and components, even if we're willing to void the system's warranty.

Still, there's the subwoofer anomaly; people have replaced it without stopping the vehicle. Perhaps the system doesn't monitor that circuit's power draw.

 

[superfluid]

Thanks so much for this analysis superfluid. I visited the forum today precisely because I‘m annoyed enough at the muddy midrange on my R1S (Elevation system) that I came here looking for answers and voila.

Regardless, it seems that the crossover or whatever is causing that terrible drop in signal around 1kHz is likely a piece of hardware that can’t be fixed by software and EQ fixes are just band-aids — perhaps effective as we can get until the car audio wizards figure out how to trick the computer into allowing speakers and amps to be changed.

Sure thing. Hope the settings help.

I agree; if 1 kHz is a crossover problem, it's unlikely to be fixed OTA. The only way I can think of to do it OTA is to add FIR/IIR filters to the DSP to time-align the crossover region. I don't know how much processing power is available to run that kind of DSP, though.

The best way I can think of to narrow the issue down to the crossover is by measuring and comparing a Meridian system. Ideally, a Meridian system in an R1S, but I think we can draw useful conclusions from a Meridian R1T.

 

[ealberton]

This is awesome I’m just sad that it has no relevance to my R1S with a Meridian sound system. Will someone in Austin with a R1S and Meridian system take it to superfluid and have him do the same test? I will help cover the cost of dinner and drink for him to help the rest of us out.

 

[foxerson]

Linus' Labs team did a very similar test and EQ profile creation for the Meridian R1T a while back as part of their review, and I've been using it since they put it out, and think it's a massive improvement as well. They target their own "LMG Car Audio Target v0.8", but I'm sure it's very similar to what the Harmen target is trying to accomplish.

Here's a timestamped link as well:

Thanks for this link. I appreciate good quality sound but am not a discerning audiophile with the ability to properly tune a system.

I tried the the recommendations from @superfluid a few days ago in my R1T with Meridian and it did seem better than the "Rock" preset. But I knew that it likely wasn't an ideal setup. This morning I tried the Linus Labs settings. To my untrained ear their recommendations seemed to dial back several frequencies a bit too much. I dialed it back up a notch or two in a couple of spots. Will try this out for a bit until someone can replicate testing in a R1T with Meridian.

 

[PeterSK]

I wish Rivian would add native Apple Music so I wouldn't need to resort to Bluetooth...

 

[Glembi2]

Does the sound (EQ based on constructive and destructive interference) vary only when moving front to back or does it also vary from the side to the middle of the truck?

 

[superfluid]

Does the sound (EQ based on constructive and destructive interference) vary only when moving front to back or does it also vary from the side to the middle of the truck?

It varies in all three dimensions: front to back, side to side, and top to bottom.

One way to visualize what's going on is to imagine that your cabin is filled with liquid. Each speaker is a dolphin sending sonar waves that radiate in three dimensions through the liquid and bounce around the cabin until they run out of energy. Anywhere the sonar waves intersect, you're likely to get some kind of interference. If all 22 of the R1S's speakers play at the same time, that's 22 dolphins' worth of waves bouncing around in 3D space.

I realize that's a silly picture, but it should help you to picture what's happening in physical space. The downside of seeing waves depicted as sine waves on a 2D graph in physics is that we forget what sound is—air particles compressing and expanding against each other in a spherical wavefront as pressure moves through 3D space.

 

[bhlackey]

@superfluid I'm going to try and repeat your tests with R1T Meridian over the next few days. I have my mic already. I wanted to verify your settings on REW. Any comments or differences you were using?

I was also curious on the smoothing and scales of your graphs. (Also makes for comparison between T and S)

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