Rivian preparing in-house V2H charger

[SparkyR1t]

I’ve been waiting for this since we got the car! Our neighborhood is powered by above ground power and it is far from reliable. Problem is I’m a total rookie when it comes to home electrical outside of swapping light switches. Anyone have an idea on the cost to update the electrical on the house to receive power?

I know a lot “depends” on the home/electrical but didn’t know if there was a ballpark figure. I can always ask an electrician once it comes out but was just curious. At a certain price point wonder if a normal generator is wiser.

to ready a standard home for an EV battery backup power system you will first need a transfer switch. If it is a whole house 100 or 200 amp switch figure $3500 - 5000 for switch and installation. Now with the EV we also need to convert that high voltage dc battery power to 240 v ac power. Now Rivian could build the inverter electronics into their wall connector but I am assuming here we may have to supply one at an estimated cost of equipment and install of a 9200 watt inverter to be an additional $3500-5000 These are the hidden facts of the costs to set up a home to allow an EV battery to power a home. But in the end if there is an outage it is worth it having a very large hv battery just sitting in the driveway waiting to assist.

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[Dawgtoberfest]

to ready a standard home for an EV battery backup power system you will first need a transfer switch. If it is a whole house 100 or 200 amp switch figure $3500 - 5000 for switch and installation. Now with the EV we also need to convert that high voltage dc battery power to 240 v ac power. Now Rivian could build the inverter electronics into their wall connector but I am assuming here we may have to supply one at an estimated cost of equipment and install of a 9200 watt inverter to be an additional $3500-5000 These are the hidden facts of the costs to set up a home to allow an EV battery to power a home. But in the end if there is an outage it is worth it having a very large hv battery just sitting in the driveway waiting to assist.

Woof. That’s what I worried about. With ya on having a big ole battery sitting there but makes me wonder if the same or less $$ with a traditional generator may be better (resale, not dependent on owning an EV)

 

[SparkyR1t]

I have an 18 year old NG powered Generac. My choices are replace with new in a couple of years or set up to use one of my EV’s. No brainer for me battery power is the way to go quiet, safe, available

 

[Dawgtoberfest]

I have an 18 year old NG powered Generac. My choices are replace with new in a couple of years or set up to use one of my EV’s. No brainer for me battery power is the way to go quiet, safe, available

My worry with a generator is if it’s not regularly maintained, tested then come time you need it it may not work.

Thanks for your insight!

 

[vandy1981]

24kw is 200a of residential power which makes a lot of sense as this could entirely power a whole house assuming they could get two split phase legs out of the inverter which is already a technology that exists. 200a is the most common service size in the US.

It's 100 amps (24,000/240=100).

AC output is actually a much more elegant solution since it uses the on-board charger and allows you to use it at camp sites, work sites, etc. Compare that to the DC solution that requires an EVSE box+Inverter box+automatic transfer switch+dark start battery.

 

[jeeden]

It definitely isn't cheap, but consider these points:

• A 20KW standby generator (they can get by with smaller ones now like 15Kw with smart switches, but this is really big enough to run a household with AC/heat which is the real power hog other than stoves/ovens. Things like TVs, lights, fans, and even freezers/refrigerators barely register anyore with LEDs and multistage compressors ) is about $15K installed with a transfer switch
• Even with the generator you then are on the hook for fuel. One of my neighbors has a standby generator that autostarts when there is an outage. A couple of years ago we had an outage for 3 days and they sucked down 500 gallons of propane in that three days to the tune of $1500 or so depending on what you are paying for propane
• While I'm anxious for this solution, if they don't come out with the V2H hardware by the end of this year, I will probably wait for the R2 which will only be a year away and have the AC solution

IMO, in a couple of years when used Rivians and F150's are cheaper on the used market, it will make more financial sense to buy one for the sole purpose of backup power as if it was a "portable standby generator on wheels that you can occasionally use for getting mulch/hauling" then any other system. I'm also looking forward to some of the companies that are recycling used EV batteries for battery power plants to start making consumer power walls out of the same recycled batteries.

 

[docwhiz]

It's 100 amps (24,000/240=100).

AC output is actually a much more elegant solution since it uses the on-board charger and allows you to use it at camp sites, work sites, etc. Compare that to the DC solution that requires an EVSE box+Inverter box+automatic transfer switch+dark start battery.

AC is limited to 11 kW but that should be adequate for most houses. You'll need an "essential loads panel".
Also, it looks like AC will only be available on the R2. I assume since it requires an inverter in the car.

 

[SANZC02]

One thing to keep in mind with this is future proofing it. As of now I don’t know if NACS is going to support DC out which may account for the differences between R1 and R2 Outputs. What ever solution we may want to understand is how flexible it is and what pieces will be reusable going forward now that many manufacturers are going in the NACS direction.

I’ll check all of the options but may wait for the R2 before I implement anything.

 

[VSG]

AC output is actually a much more elegant solution since it uses the on-board charger and allows you to use it at camp sites, work sites, etc. Compare that to the DC solution that requires an EVSE box+Inverter box+automatic transfer switch+dark start battery.

But what you're describing is V2L, not V2H. Different things.

And just to poke the bear ... y'all know that V2H is only available with CCS, right? The NACS specification doesn't have V2H.

 

[docwhiz]

But what you're describing is V2L, not V2H. Different things.

And just to poke the bear ... y'all know that V2H is only available with CCS, right? The NACS specification doesn't have V2H.

The NACS has an electrical and mechanical agnostic interface1 that enables the same Power Line Communication (PLC) protocols (ISO 15118 and DIN 70121) as the CCS system. With the use of an adapter, this allows for near-universal compatibility in charging all EV models on the road today.13 These protocols also enable opportunities for bidirectional vehicle-to-load (V2L), vehicle-to-grid (V2G), and vehicle-to-home (V2H) charging.

 

[vandy1981]

But what you're describing is V2L, not V2H. Different things.

And just to poke the bear ... y'all know that V2H is only available with CCS, right? The NACS specification doesn't have V2H.

You are technically correct, but for most people V2L is going to be the same thing as V2H--something they use to power critical loads when the power goes out. In those cases an AC system is going to be sufficient.

There are few people who will spend the money for an automatic backup system or want to use their Rivian for load shaving or energy arbitrage. And a minority of those people have utilities that are amenable to these grid-tied systems. Look at how unpopular the Ford backup system has been.

 

[VSG]

The NACS has an electrical and mechanical agnostic interface1 that enables the same Power Line Communication (PLC) protocols (ISO 15118 and DIN 70121) as the CCS system. With the use of an adapter, this allows for near-universal compatibility in charging all EV models on the road today.13 These protocols also enable opportunities for bidirectional vehicle-to-load (V2L), vehicle-to-grid (V2G), and vehicle-to-home (V2H) charging.

Did you google that? Sounds like it. The phrase "enable opportunities for V2H" is not the same as supports V2H right now. I didn't say it's impossible to add V2H to NACS, just that it's not currently included in NACS.

 

[CharonPDX]

My thoughts: develop a home natural disaster energy plan. Turn off all unnecessary breakers and only V2H power essential appliances.

I’ll likely purchase one of these when it’s available.

Or, unless your whole house's breaker is only 100 Amps, use an "essential loads panel" - put the circuits you *NEED* on the battery-backed circuits, and leave the less important circuits unpowered during an outage.

I have a home battery now, and that's how I have it set up. The kitchen has power (to keep the fridge running, and be able to use natural gas stove's electric controls,) the furnace has power (to run the blower on the natural gas furnace,) the garage 120V circuit has power (to be able to use the garage door openers, and even trickle-charge an EV over 120V if we're producing plenty of extra solar,) the family room has power (because that's where our cable modem is, plus to provide a "common space" with power for people to hang out,) and the master bedroom has power (to run CPAP, and have the primary sleeping room have power.) The rest of the house doesn't get power during an outage. And when we do have outages, (about a once a year occurrence of a >5 hour outage, and multiple <1 hour outages per year,) we do try to minimize power use even in those spaces.

 

[docwhiz]

Did you google that? Sounds like it. The phrase "enable opportunities for V2H" is not the same as supports V2H right now. I didn't say it's impossible to add V2H to NACS, just that it's not currently included in NACS.

This was from an Enphase White Paper... should be a reliable source
https://enphase.com/ev-chargers/whitepaper-nacs-ev-charging-technology

 

[Supratachophobia]

It should act just like a battery storage during an outage. You will need a grid disconnect to use it. Once they announce the specs I’m going to talk to my solar guy to see if my Tesla power wall can tie into it or if I need additional pieces.

Also interested in this. if the charger is going to take 24kw of DC from the car and turn it into AC, then I would imagine it would need a gateway like the Tesla (or better yet, talk to the Tesla gateway) to disconnect from the grid and then it becomes another AC source alongside your powerwall. A 2nd powerwall if you will.

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