Gen 1 Vampire Drain (Possibly) Solved (or Hacked)

[josh0]

I'm thinking the Lithium one would need much less topping off versus the current one.

There is one available on the market and I bet some users on the forums have made the swap. Would love their input!

In theory, perhaps, but if you simply hook a lithium battery up to the current system that is designed to monitor and charge a lead one, it will eventually kill the battery. You need a specific charging profile to properly charge a lithium battery, and the Rivian will not provide that without changes being made to the software and probably hardware. A same-sized lithium battery will hold at least twice the charge, so you’re correct that it wouldn’t need to be topped up as frequently, but the Rivian systems would still treat it like a lead battery, which will result in mistreating it, and eventually destroying it. (It’s possible that in the mean time you would reduce the vampire drain, but at the cost of having to replace the battery with some frequency; it’s also possible that the different charge/discharge characteristics of a lithium battery would result in the Rivian charging it more frequently, even though it’s not necessary increasing the VD.)

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[NY_Rob]

In theory, perhaps, but if you simply hook a lithium battery up to the current system that is designed to monitor and charge a lead one, it will eventually kill the battery. You need a specific charging profile to properly charge a lithium battery, and the Rivian will not provide that without changes being made to the software and probably hardware. A same-sized lithium battery will hold at least twice the charge, so you’re correct that it wouldn’t need to be topped up as frequently, but the Rivian systems would still treat it like a lead battery, which will result in mistreating it, and eventually destroying it.

I would worry about the lithium battery sitting up at 14.2+ volts for long periods of time. Rivian likes to keep their 12V batts charged at a very high 14.2V or higher level. While that's not ideal for a 12V AGM batt like the kind Rivian uses for it's 12V systems, it's not damaging to it. On the contrary, you can charge any 12V automotive lithium battery up to 14.6 volts because that's what they were designed for and the BMS will not let it charge over 14.6V. But, keeping any lithium based cells at nearly 100% capacity over long periods, or even charging them to that very high voltage at all is not good for it. It will be interesting to see how long the Ohmmu lithium batts will last in Rivian vehicles.

 

[shap]

I would personally not go the shaming route, at least not at this juncture. Supposedly, Wassym Bensaid monitors and responds to postings on social media, which I think means his FB page. Maybe post sometihing there to get Wassym to look at this thread?

I was joking ... or not. I think they need to look at this seriously

 

[mudito]

I would worry about the lithium battery sitting up at 14.2+ volts for long periods of time. Rivian likes to keep their 12V batts charged at a very high 14.2V or higher level. While that's not ideal for a 12V AGM batt like the kind Rivian uses for it's 12V systems, it's not damaging to it. On the contrary, you can charge any 12V automotive lithium battery up to 14.6 volts because that's what they were designed for and the BMS will not let it charge over 14.6V. But, keeping any lithium based cells at nearly 100% capacity over long periods, or even charging them to that very high voltage at all is not good for it. It will be interesting to see how long the Ohmmu lithium batts will last in Rivian vehicles.

Well... seeing how long the AGM's are lasting, It'll be hard to make them last less than that

(It might be me just upset because I woke up today to a dead R1T due to 12V battery)

 

[shrink]

My R1S in Hawaii (which was sadly in a minor accident and sitting in my garage and awaiting repair - more on that in a separate thread) is back in my garage and hooked up to a 12V battery charger.

- Again no loss from the HV battery in 6 days and counting
- Draw from the battery charger is about 0.3 kWh/day (I'm using this really hand Wi-Fi enabled monitor: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C619YRRM?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title)

By contrast, my R1T, which sat plugged for 8 days in Phoenix while I was in Hawaii somehow added 32.6 kWh to maintain its SOC. Granted it's been stupid hot in Phoenix so I'm hoping there was some battery cooling/maintenance, but 4 kWh per day is a little ridiculous. I don't know why, but power draw on a plugged in Rivian is greater than an unplugged one.

Anyway, I'm glad others have found this solution effective. It's stupid we have to do it, but it works.

 

[jplblue]

So I tested the OBDII 12v battery charger adapter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007KJ2RZK) over the weekend for about 24 hours. I used this charger (https://www.amazon.com/YHCHKJ-Maintainer-Fully-Automotive-Desulfator-Motorcycles/dp/B0CQRFN7F9/) since it is 3 amps and comes with the SAE connector. I tested both on our 2nd car first before using on the Rivian.

Results:

• It works. Over a little more than 24 hours, the R1S lost 1 mile. This is way better than normal, where we'd lose 1 mile every 5 hours or so. I didn't make any extra effort to keep the car asleep, and would check the app for mileage whenever I felt curious. The 12v voltage sat around 14.2vs at the beginning and end of the test.
• The results are interesting because we have an early R1S with 2 batteries. I'm guessing that the OBDII connects to the "primary" 12v -- and that the "primary" 12v is the one that needs to be topped off to avoid vampire drain? @NY_Rob -- it'd be interesting to see if you get similar results if you only charged the main 12v, which I believe is closer to the driver side.
• I'm guessing that 3 amps is actually not enough to "top off" the 12v battery, given that it seems to run constantly and there were indications that the 12v battery dipped below 14.2v at some points. I don't have any measuring equipment, so this is just my layman observation.
• The charger draws about 57 watts, although I don't think it's constant. I plugged the charger into my Bluetti to test for a few minutes, and it cycled between 57w and 0, but I'm not sure what the total draw over the period is. The charger was constantly warm (not hot).
• It's an easy way to trickle charge the 12v battery without having to get under the hood. Not sure if I'll bother doing it regularly, since it probably annoys the wife. Could be useful in camping/off grid situations, since have have solar to charge our Bluetti/etc.

Please let me know if I'm doing something wrong and that a housefire is imminent.

EDIT: Forgot to mention: if you are using the adapter + charger I linked to, you have to use a reverse polarity adapter: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CGKLPFCP . Otherwise, the charger will throw out error due to reverse polarity protection.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

So I tested the OBDII 12v battery charger adapter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007KJ2RZK) over the weekend for about 24 hours. I used this charger (https://www.amazon.com/YHCHKJ-Maintainer-Fully-Automotive-Desulfator-Motorcycles/dp/B0CQRFN7F9/) since it is 3 amps and comes with the SAE connector. I tested both on our 2nd car first before using on the Rivian.

Results:

• It works. Over a little more than 24 hours, the R1S lost 1 mile. This is way better than normal, where we'd lose 1 mile every 5 hours or so. I didn't make any extra effort to keep the car asleep, and would check the app for mileage whenever I felt curious. The 12v voltage sat around 14.2vs at the beginning and end of the test.
• The results are interesting because we have an early R1S with 2 batteries. I'm guessing that the OBDII connects to the "primary" 12v -- and that the "primary" 12v is the one that needs to be topped off to avoid vampire drain? @NY_Rob -- it'd be interesting to see if you get similar results if you only charged the main 12v, which I believe is closer to the driver side.
• I'm guessing that 3 amps is actually not enough to "top off" the 12v battery, given that it seems to run constantly and there were indications that the 12v battery dipped below 14.2v at some points. I don't have any measuring equipment, so this is just my layman observation.
• The charger draws about 57 watts, although I don't think it's constant. I plugged the charger into my Bluetti to test for a few minutes, and it cycled between 57w and 0, but I'm not sure what the total draw over the period is. The charger was constantly warm (not hot).
• It's an easy way to trickle charge the 12v battery without having to get under the hood. Not sure if I'll bother doing it regularly, since it probably annoys the wife. Could be useful in camping/off grid situations, since have have solar to charge our Bluetti/etc.

Please let me know if I'm doing something wrong and that a housefire is imminent.

Thanks for the testing. Looks like the OBD II adapter cable is out of stock.

 

[Nixapatfan]

Gret thread. Just wanted to add some info which I'm sure most of you already know. I was getting a ton of vampire drain on my truck almost 3% a day as the truck never went to sleep due to the 12v batteries constantly needing to be topped off so resorting to the battery tender trick documented here is a great stop gap. Had both 12v batteries replaced last week and now the drain is down to less than 0.5% a day. So it appears as the 12v batteries loose reserve capacity the vampire drain keeps getting more and more.

Also the premature battery failures might have something to do with the supplier they are using for these batteries so for out of warranty trucks might be best to look for alternative suppliers. Just look up the youtube saga going on with DCS batteries and what we are seeing on our trucks.

 

[jplblue]

Gret thread. Just wanted to add some info which I'm sure most of you already know. I was getting a ton of vampire drain on my truck almost 3% a day as the truck never went to sleep due to the 12v batteries constantly needing to be topped off so resorting to the battery tender trick documented here is a great stop gap. Had both 12v batteries replaced last week and now the drain is down to less than 0.5% a day. So it appears as the 12v batteries loose reserve capacity the vampire drain keeps getting more and more.

Also the premature battery failures might have something to do with the supplier they are using for these batteries so for out of warranty trucks might be best to look for alternative suppliers. Just look up the youtube saga going on with DCS batteries and what we are seeing on our trucks.

People mentioned that Rivian switched battery models or suppliers that are supposed to be better now. Can I ask what VIN number you have (roughly)? What was the process for getting new batteries and what did Rivian ask you to submit? Thanks!

 

[Yossarian]

Things have reverted back to the drain levels I was seeing after the 2024.27 update.

Over the past 10 or so days, I had been seeing a much more reasonable 1% loss over 12 hours compared with double or triple that previously. That seems to have changed, and last night to now, in the span of about 12 hours, I lost 2%.

I have not changed any of the settings, except for the color of the interior accent lighting.

 

[Jakelake]

I have not pulled my batteries but from watching the videos on how to replace them it appears that they are the same size as an Odyssey PC 680 AGM battery which costs $167. The only AGM replacement I have found is on Ebay for about $499. Can anyone tell me the size and specifications of an original Rivian 12 volt battery. p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

 

[Nixapatfan]

People mentioned that Rivian switched battery models or suppliers that are supposed to be better now. Can I ask what VIN number you have (roughly)? What was the process for getting new batteries and what did Rivian ask you to submit? Thanks!

Mine is a very early build under 2000. I didn't ask for anything it was in for service for an unrelated issue and as part of their inspection they noticed and called me to tell me the batteries need replacing and just did it.

 

[Nixapatfan]

I have not pulled my batteries but from watching the videos on how to replace them it appears that they are the same size as an Odyssey PC 680 AGM battery which costs $167. The only AGM replacement I have found is on Ebay for about $499. Can anyone tell me the size and specifications of an original Rivian 12 volt battery. p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

I have no experience with these, but they list the battery size and have video on how to replace. The key thing will be to make sure the terminals are flush with the top so the distribution blocks can be mounted.
12V Lithium Battery (Dual or Single 12V) for R1S / R1T | ohmmu.com

 

[jplblue]

I have not pulled my batteries but from watching the videos on how to replace them it appears that they are the same size as an Odyssey PC 680 AGM battery which costs $167. The only AGM replacement I have found is on Ebay for about $499. Can anyone tell me the size and specifications of an original Rivian 12 volt battery. p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

Apparently, the OEM batteries are:

https://assets.ctfassets.net/3inf9w...d0444850f1fad3/EVP_DCS_DataSheet_08312022.pdf

DCS-18UNC RIT

 

[mudito]

People mentioned that Rivian switched battery models or suppliers that are supposed to be better now. Can I ask what VIN number you have (roughly)? What was the process for getting new batteries and what did Rivian ask you to submit? Thanks!

FYI, mine died last Thursday and was towed to the SC yesterday. The 12V replacement batteries arrived today to the SC and I'm expecting to have this (and other things I asked for) done by Friday/Monday. I will take pictures of the batteries once I have the truck back home so people here can tell if there are newer revision or not

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