The Truth About Reliability

[iansriv]

Don-great write up! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am biased as my R1S has been very reliable.

I also agree with other comments that there are areas that Rivian can do better. We also have to recognise that reliability is subjective. One person might consider something a total failure while someone else will shrug it off.

Sponsored

 

[BearMan123]

I am one that had my Rivian in the SC for just under 4 weeks after delivery of what proved to be the first Gen2 in my market. I wasn’t very thrilled, although I knew that they were working with the software group to figure out what was wrong with the new heat pump and ultimately replaced the fan and the software updates resolved the rest.

What I know is that my BMW ix50 was filled with software issues. Screens going black while driving. Power seat mechanism failed. Once the alarm going off and wouldn’t stop while I was driving home embarrassed to have the alarm refusing to shut off until I got home and found the hard key fob. My wife’s 2023 Cadillac Escalade (see, I try and balance my carbon footprint) has had 3 critical issues impacting driving including last week power steering due to a bad battery cell on a car with 21,000 miles on it. The OTC software updates for that vehicle don’t allow a very large software update so you take it to the dealer so they can plug it in all day. At the Cadillac dealer 2 months ago, they had a huge wooden crate that was 8’ long and it was a complete replace battery for one of the Hummers.

I am sure we all have our list. I’ve come to the conclusion that Rivian is still a learning company and not GM or Ford of 100 years. We are in a transitional period for both companies and technology. If you are not prepared to roll with this a bit, don’t buy an EV. Because I don’t think anyone has it ‘right’. I have observed that Rivian has pushed out more software updates in a 4-month ownership period than any of my other cars/brands. I guess one could say that this shows how many things that they are still fixing, on the other hand, it shows to me that they are listening and learning and responding relatively quickly.

My biggest issue right now is that I am pulling on anverage around 1.7 kWh now that it has gotten cold (max battery pack, dual motor). Whereas, my other EV (yeah, why not have 2)—a BMW i4 M50 is pulling consistently 2.9 to 3.1 in the same weather. I’ll be tracking this for a month or so and report back—welcome other folks feedback if they are in cold climates.

 

[jwanderson88]

On the subject of my dead / bricked truck again: You can't blame 12-volt battery failure on high tech. It's a 12-volt battery. I'm surprised that people seem to think a dead car is just something that happens. Get used to it. I and other owners who have had it happen think it's the worst. One dead car event negates years of carefree driving because it is so bad.

I love my Rivian. The passenger environment is actually the most import thing for me and it's very quiet and the pneumatic suspension is like riding on a cloud. I think I was lucky because as far as the ride goes, I don't have any of the squeaks or rattles or other noises that plague other owners. Rivian has taken care of all my problems very well. I have a new battery now and I don't expect it to fail for years. What they ought to do is install a brand new 12-volt battery the very day the customer picks it up. That way they're ensured maximum battery life.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

On the subject of my dead / bricked truck again: You can't blame 12-volt battery failure on high tech. It's a 12-volt battery. I'm surprised that people seem to think a dead car is just something that happens. Get used to it. I and other owners who have had it happen think it's the worst. One dead car event negates years of carefree driving because it is so bad.

I love my Rivian. The passenger environment is actually the most import thing for me and it's very quiet and the pneumatic suspension is like riding on a cloud. I think I was lucky because as far as the ride goes, I don't have any of the squeaks or rattles or other noises that plague other owners. Rivian has taken care of all my problems very well. I have a new battery now and I don't expect it to fail for years. What they ought to do is install a brand new 12-volt battery the very day the customer picks it up. That way they're ensured maximum battery life.

12v battery failures happen with shocking frequency on ICE vehicles. Usually it's a result of an alternator failure but also could be a battery with bad cells. It causes the same outcome in a ICE vehicle, inability to operate, as it does in a Rivian. It happens in new and old vehicles alike. I've never owned an ICE vehicle that gave warning prior to a 12v battery failing, other than maybe a couple difficult cold cranks to indicate it wasn't holding a charge very well.

When the battery in my Mazda CX-5 died, I didn't swear off Mazda vehicles for life and wince every time I hit the start button. I just got an Interstate battery and kept driving like normal.

 

[LR4toR1S]

Mine broke in the first 30 miles. ...so there is that... It is at the Denver Service station.


I'm sure it was a complete anomaly though. I have not seen any other reports of the same failure of the entire adaptive (new to GEN2?) lighting system system. Sucks to be me though.

 

[White Shadow]

Every day, we have many people posting threads on various issues. Lately, we've had at least three threads on the same consumer reports article ranking Rivian dead last in reliability..... Setting aside the utility, or lack thereof, of making such a post, everyone speaking to Rivian's reliability forgets one thing.

There is a strong inverse correlation between a machine's complexity and reliability. The simpler a machine, the less likely it will experience a malfunction, everything else being equal. Rivian is at the cutting edge of vehicle design. I have a 7k-pound SUV that accelerates to 60 in 2.9 seconds and runs an almost 10-second quarter mile. Who else is getting that kind of performance out of ANY vehicle, let alone such an atypical sized and weight vehicle?

First. I have to admit that I stopped reading your post right about where I quoted it. That said, the argument you are making is counterintuitive. High performance ICE vehicles are typically complex machines, normally requiring complicated engines with forced induction of some sort. EVs don't require anywhere near that level of complexity for performance compared to an ICE vehicle. That said, the theory of an EV being unreliable because of the complexity required for performance is basically non-factor. In reality, an electric motor is about as simple as it gets. The real (biggest) reason for reliability issues is more on the technology/software side. That's where the true complexity is on modern EVs. It has nothing at all to do with performance. EVs are mechanically MUCH more simple than an ICE vehicle, so reliability on that front should be very high comparatively speaking.

 

[White Shadow]

12v battery failures happen with shocking frequency on ICE vehicles. Usually it's a result of an alternator failure but also could be a battery with bad cells. It causes the same outcome in a ICE vehicle, inability to operate, as it does in a Rivian. It happens in new and old vehicles alike. I've never owned an ICE vehicle that gave warning prior to a 12v battery failing, other than maybe a couple difficult cold cranks to indicate it wasn't holding a charge very well.

When the battery in my Mazda CX-5 died, I didn't swear off Mazda vehicles for life and wince every time I hit the start button. I just got an Interstate battery and kept driving like normal.

I've been driving for almost 40 years now and never once had a 12V battery fail. That said, I see 12V batteries as maintenance items, so once they are a few years old, I'll load test them to make sure they are still healthy. And I usually end up changing them out at at the 6 or 7 year mark as preventive maintenance. I don't wait for them to die. But either way, a 12V battery failure on an ICE vehicle is typically not a big deal. A quick Jumpstart and you're often on your way. It's not the same thing with an EV.

 

[White Shadow]

....and none of them have made a car with the same level of performance.

Does performance really matter? You mention this so much that I'm starting to think that you'd have no basis for your argument if Rivian made vehicles that had average performance.

Most people aren't buying a Rivian because they want to run 0-60 as fast as possible. They just aren't. Most people couldn't care less. And even those who do aren't using the vehicle's maximum performance 99% of the time. So why keep going back to such a weak argument? Long before the dual motor power train came out, I said that I'd trade performance for range and many people feel the same way. Range is so much more useful than have 1000 hp in a vehicle that I'll almost never use it all or need it all. It's just a silly and irrelevant argument at this point.

And to be honest, if I really wanted a toy to drive fast on public roads, it for sure would not be a 7,000 lb truck or SUV, regardless of EV or ICE.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Does performance really matter? You mention this so much that I'm starting to think that you'd have no basis for your argument if Rivian made vehicles that had average performance.

Most people are buying a Rivian because they want to run 0-60 as fast as possible. They just aren't. Most people couldn't care less. And even those who do aren't using the vehicle's maximum performance 99% of the time. So why keep going back to such a weak argument? Long before the dual motor power train came out, I said that I'd trade performance for range and many people feel the same way. Range is so much more useful than have 1000 hp in a vehicle that I'll almost never use it all or need it all. It's just a silly and irrelevant argument at this point.

And to be honest, if I really wanted a toy to drive fast on public roads, it for sure would not be a 7,000 lb truck or SUV, regardless of EV or ICE.

I bought mine because of the performance. I use it all the time, so telling me it's irrelevant is pretty fucking stupid when that's my primary use case. Obviously it's an opinion, but I can tell you that performance was the differentiating factor and the reason why I went Rivian again. There is also more to performance than just the speed, it's the speed AND the off-roading capability in the SAME package.

It's also the speed and performance in a car that I would daily drive. It's big enough for my stuff, comfortable to sit in traffic with, people in their jacked up trucks still see me yet I still get that thrill I do from my wife's M car or my uncle's ACR Viper. Just because it's not important to you doesn't mean it isn't important to anyone, or people wouldn't be dropping 100K+ on a tri but they are.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

First. I have to admit that I stopped reading your post right about where I quoted it. That said, the argument you are making is counterintuitive. High performance ICE vehicles are typically complex machines, normally requiring complicated engines with forced induction of some sort. EVs don't require anywhere near that level of complexity for performance compared to an ICE vehicle. That said, the theory of an EV being unreliable because of the complexity required for performance is basically non-factor. In reality, an electric motor is about as simple as it gets. The real (biggest) reason for reliability issues is more on the technology/software side. That's where the true complexity is on modern EVs. It has nothing at all to do with performance. EVs are mechanically MUCH more simple than an ICE vehicle, so reliability on that front should be very high comparatively speaking.

If you're not even going to bother reading my entire post, don't comment. I'll extend you the same courtesy to tell you I didn't read this after the first sentence.

Why do you even hang out here? You've said numerous times you have no interest in purchasing a Rivian. Go to the Jeep forum and talk about those.

 

[gsqrd]

12v battery failures happen with shocking frequency on ICE vehicles. Usually it's a result of an alternator failure but also could be a battery with bad cells. It causes the same outcome in a ICE vehicle, inability to operate, as it does in a Rivian. It happens in new and old vehicles alike. I've never owned an ICE vehicle that gave warning prior to a 12v battery failing, other than maybe a couple difficult cold cranks to indicate it wasn't holding a charge very well.

When the battery in my Mazda CX-5 died, I didn't swear off Mazda vehicles for life and wince every time I hit the start button. I just got an Interstate battery and kept driving like normal.

If an ICE 12V dies you jump it then the alternator lets you drive to parts store for easy install of fresh battery. No tow/turtle. No Comparison. My primary RIV complaint. It doesn't have to be this way.

 

[R1Tom]

If an ICE 12V dies you jump it then the alternator lets you drive to parts store for easy install of fresh battery. No tow/turtle. No Comparison. My primary RIV complaint. It doesn't have to be this way.

I just wish Rivian had put a mechanical key into the fob and then a physical lock into the driver's door. On G1 I wish then additionally they would have put a mechanical release for frunk so I can get at the battery and on G2....I wish they hadn't put the battery under a seat (in a passenger compartment with at a minimum....difficult access in the event of a 12v battery failure).

 

[Yossarian]

Until rather recently, Jeep had among the most loyal automotive following, while at the same time being among the least reliable brands. I suspect that the high loyalty rating eventually worked to undo Jeep. Even with the poor reliability, with such a devoted following, there was not much incentive for the parent company, now the auto conglomerate Stallantis, to bother to try very hard to make a better vehicle. So they didn't.

It would seem then that at least for some period of time, loyalty and reliability can be inversely related, with no significant adverse impact on vehicle sales. Rivian is kind of in the same spot that Jeep was in 20 or even 10 years ago: making a vehicle that when it actually worked, performed well and was fun to drive, and had a huge cadre of die-hard supporters to boot. Where Rivian and Jeep are quite different is with respect to the time frame. It took Jeep decades for their indifferent quality to catch up with them. Rivian has only a couple of years to fix the problem.

I strongly suspect that Rivian knows this, and will continue to work hard to fix the QA/QC and service center issues. There really isn't a choice however.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Except the bulk of reliability issues have nothing to do with Rivian’s new tech or advanced EV stuff. The reliability issues are as to all the other basic stuff that can and should be done way better.

The more complicated the more likely something is going to break, yes even "basic" stuff. More sensors to break, more wires to be crossed, more software to be screwed up.

 

[moosehead]

I love my R1T dearly, which I overpaid for and followed with dumbfackery RIVN stock purchases.

Still love her. She’s just like many other supermodel sports cars, uber SUV’s, and performance trucks before her, except faster and cooler and more functional.

Sponsored