Universal Hands-Free can kill you! (If you don’t read release notes)

[Glembi2]

On the topic of engineering stuff ya learned in school, this one seems appropriate:

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don’t.

Reading the release notes is always a good idea. However, shouldn’t everything be designed to not require reading of the release notes or manual? A long time ago, in a city far, far away, I was visiting a client and mentioned I needed more information. I asked one of the engineers for the manual. He responded “there is no manual. Everything is designed to be intuitive and easily understood through use.”

Instead of pushing critical information into release notes or a manual, shouldn’t we (people who design stuff) force critical information to be immediately understood without a manual?

I’m thinking about EVs with electronically operated doors and the manual opener not always being immediately apparent.

not sure if this is behind a paywall. It relates to passengers not knowing how to get out of the back seat of an EV with electronic doors

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2025/cybertruck-crash-design-lawsuit/

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[Dark-Fx]

Instead of pushing critical information into release notes or a manual, shouldn’t we (people who design stuff) force critical information to be immediately understood without a manual?

Well, there's a reason driving requires a license. Because there are things you aren't going to understand without pre-learning about them. How do we learn new things? We read, for one.

 

[VandalSibs]

Reading the release notes is always a good idea. However, shouldn’t everything be designed to not require reading of the release notes or manual? A long time ago, in a city far, far away, I was visiting a client and mentioned I needed more information. I asked one of the engineers for the manual. He responded “there is no manual. Everything is designed to be intuitive and easily understood through use.”

This kind of thinking is great and all, but simplicity of use really only works for things that are very limited in function or capabilities. One shouldn't need instructions on how to use a shovel, but there are very few ways to actually use a shovel. Once you start layering multiple modes of operation on something, instructions become much more necessary.

 

[therealcmj]

I am reminded of the apocryphal story of the new owner of a big brand new RV with the (then brand new and not well understood) feature called Cruise Control.

On his very first trip after bringing the RV home and packing it up for his trip he hit the highway, turned on cruise control, and went to make himself a sandwich in the galley.

With absolutely predictable results.

 

[Weck]

From the way the release sounded, Rivian is going to give point to point for a bit before switching to paid service. I don't think there is a plan to roll out paid before point to point is live and working.

I hope that is the case, but then again when I purchased they were talking hands free/eyes off for Gen 2, and also Autonomy+ was supposed to be free only through the first half of this year, but we barely got hands free on the highway by then.

My guess is point to point is still late 2026 at earliest, I'd be shocked if it hit before April.

 

[mkhuffman]

This kind of thinking is great and all, but simplicity of use really only works for things that are very limited in function or capabilities. One shouldn't need instructions on how to use a shovel, but there are very few ways to actually use a shovel. Once you start layering multiple modes of operation on something, instructions become much more necessary.

Like when digging a much bigger hole with a backhoe.

 

[Brenden]

FTFY

I was wondering myself what it meant to drive like a carefully pruned miniature tree.

 

[VandalSibs]

Like when digging a much bigger hole with a backhoe.

Nice example that I totally should have thought of!

 

[tdrew55]

I described my approach as bonsai, so at least I'm self-aware Riviot

I’d describe it as “hold my beer and watch this.”

 

[RivianTrackr]

I have a video you should watch

 

[badger4149]

OK, I realize this thread title is controversial and admins may strike it down. I got the .46 update and was excited to give it a try - after watching several of the Rivian influencer reviews from the 'Autonomy Day' event. I do recall the Rivian person in the vehicle (repeatedly) saying this is an engineering test version. I somehow never caught-on it was demonstrating capabilities WAY ahead of what was rolling-out to start. Namely I was jazzed to watch the intersection driving and sign/light recognition, etc.

Well, NONE of that capability comes with this initial USD code.

My initial drive happened to begin on a neighborhood road that leads to a redlight controlled intersection. I was heading towards it at about 45-50 mph watching the light color status. It happened to be green as I approached but still a good way from it. As luck would have it, it turned yellow about the point at which you make that mental note of "will I or won't I" try to make the yellow light. Of course I just let it do its thing, unaware that intersections are completely uncontrolled.

I thought it was pretty "ballsy" the way it didn't flinch. Then I realized it wasn't slowing down at all and I was heading right towards running the redlight! I braked about as hard as the Rivian is able and stopped maybe a tad across the pedestrian walkway lines. I was like WTF!

OK, I should have read more and watched other reviews, etc. I got suckered into thinking it came out the box capable of managing traffic intersections. Boy was I wrong!

I did notice probably two intersections later that it flashed something like "controlled intersection ahead take appropriate actions" (or something like that). Either it didn't display the first time or I didn't see it.

I'll probably get fried by the parental types here but wanted to share my experience to avoid other bonsai drivers like me just diving right into it with unwise expectations.

Perhaps you should be using public transportation.

 

[Dasoss]

Ha, I work in legal at a tech company, and everytime we publish a new notice or terms or a new feature, a big part of what keeps me up at night is the question "how can we get people to actually read this and understand it?" No matter how clear or explicit we think we are being, there will always be people that just jump right in. Doesn't help when marketing goes bananas with videos and ads and collabs skipping over all the disclosures we spent weeks/months perfecting

I was an engineer for a medical gadget company. Regulatory agencies do not allow statements in the user's manuals to be used for mitigation in required failure analysis (FaMICA). Actually product labeling, either. Everyone knows that when hospitals unpack the devices, the first thing that they do ts throw out the manual.

 

[impulsoren]

“I can see the current iteration being useful on a rural two lane.”

I completely disagree. I have spent some time driving various “autopilot” type vehicle systems I. My home rural area, my take is they are useful only in situations where vectors are fairly predictable and reaction time is key, such as multiple-lane highways and freeways. The rural roads where I live require judgement calls fairly often, with which most vehicles struggle. Is that a big shadow behind that bush or an elk about to step out? Potholes big enough it will toss the vehicle in a different direction so it needs to be avoided, same with some dips. Tesla in particular freaks out and jerks the wheel when a fog lines disappears then is replaced by tall grass, but Chevy and Volvo also have problems to some degree with that.
Maybe the new Rivian code is better but I can’t imagine the entire concept of the system is different enough to deal with those things yet. Every time I get a chance to drive something different I turn on whatever system they have just to see what happens on rural roads.

 

[therealcmj]

Is that a big shadow behind that bush or an elk about to step out?

LIDAR and high resolution radar (at least to some extent) can tell the difference.

Potholes big enough it will toss the vehicle in a different direction so it needs to be avoided, same with some dips. Tesla in particular freaks out and jerks the wheel when a fog lines disappears then is replaced by tall grass, but Chevy and Volvo also have problems to some degree with that.

I don't know that any ADAS is smart enough to know about avoiding potholes or would know which are deeper and to be avoided. But on the latter Tesla's vision only system is always going to have problems with situations where lines disappear. I'm not saying Rivian's current implementation of vision + radar will handle that better, but LIDAR-based systems absolutely can know where the road is and stick to it.

GM touted that they were running LIDAR sleds up and down highways and secondary roads all over the country to get ground truth data on every guardrail, overpass, sign post, telephone pole, exit ramp, etc. so that Super Cruise would have a safe base map.

Post the LIDAR roll out I am hoping that the first time or two someone drives down a formerly unseen road the system is busy collecting as much data as possible even if it's less than what GM was getting. And that subsequent drives can use that data. But time will tell.

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