Doug DeMuro Can't Stop Praising R2

[TexasBob]

Rivian's tech advantage is much more than AI and Autonomy--the entire car is an integrated computer--not 20 subsystems like virtually every other old-school car brand. This is what the VW group actually paid for. The battery is 10-20% smaller than BMW, but if the R2 hits 300+ miles EPA and can charge at 200+kW deep into the pack, it will still be well-suited to road trips. It makes no difference at home.

You will need to spend at least $15k extra to get the BMW variant that can compete with R2 in performance.

I have road-tripped thousands of miles in my R1s. On a big driving day, I recharge twice on the road because I leave home or the hotel at 100%. You are correct that both charging stops are 10 minutes longer than some cars, not a big deal. Out of Spec's road trip last fall from Maine to Key West was informative--The R1S finished 30 minutes behind the winning EV on a 24-hour drive.

I have also road-tripped thousands of miles on my R1s and the reality I have experienced (consistent across three R1s) is that a full 12 hour day of driving adds 30 minutes and one stop on a good day and 40 minutes and two stops on a cold or high head-wind day verses a higher-efficiency, faster charging alternative. This is extremely annoying but not (for me) reason enough to choose one vehicle over another.

The early indications from these reviews are that the R2 will do better than the R1 in terms of total charge time on a 600 mile trip. We will see, of course, but it looks like it will have a better charge curve, a 30% lower energy use, and a slightly lower range. Verses the BMW it will add 25-35 minutes on a 600 mile trip (from ~30 minutes of charging and one stop to an hour of charging and two stops).

The zonal architecture is a significant advancement but it is also becoming industry standard. GM has adopted it for the 2028 model rollouts. Tesla is there already (CT). Hyundai's IMA is using it and moving to 48V. Geelys (Volvo) SPA3 is zonal.Neue Klasse is zonal. Ford's new universal EV platform for 2027. RJ's claim that only Rivian and Tesla have this is true-ish today but not correct at all by the end of next year.

My 2c

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[Bullwinkle]

I have also road-tripped thousands of miles on my R1s and the reality I have experienced (consistent across three R1s) is that a full 12 hour day of driving adds 30 minutes and one stop on a good day and 40 minutes and two stops on a cold or high head-wind day verses a higher-efficiency, faster charging alternative. This is extremely annoying but not (for me) reason enough to choose one vehicle over another.

The early indications from these reviews are that the R2 will do better than the R1 in terms of total charge time on a 600 mile trip. We will see, of course, but it looks like it will have a better charge curve, a 30% lower energy use, and a slightly lower range. Verses the BMW it will add 25-35 minutes on a 600 mile trip (from ~30 minutes of charging and one stop to an hour of charging and two stops).

The zonal architecture is a significant advancement but it is also becoming industry standard. GM has adopted it for the 2028 model rollouts. Tesla is there already (CT). Hyundai's IMA is using it and moving to 48V. Geelys (Volvo) SPA3 is zonal.Neue Klasse is zonal. Ford's new universal EV platform for 2027. RJ's claim that only Rivian and Tesla have this is true-ish today but not correct at all by the end of next year.

My 2c

I agree with everything you said, although I think Tesla and Rivian may have a 5-year head start on zonal architecture and one-piece, unit-body casting. Actual pricing will be interesting. I am guessing $60k will get you a well-equipped R2 with 600+hp. It may be that the 600+hp step-up BMW will be closer to $80k.

 

[mkhuffman]

I have also road-tripped thousands of miles on my R1s and the reality I have experienced (consistent across three R1s) is that a full 12 hour day of driving adds 30 minutes and one stop on a good day and 40 minutes and two stops on a cold or high head-wind day verses a higher-efficiency, faster charging alternative. This is extremely annoying but not (for me) reason enough to choose one vehicle over another.

The early indications from these reviews are that the R2 will do better than the R1 in terms of total charge time on a 600 mile trip. We will see, of course, but it looks like it will have a better charge curve, a 30% lower energy use, and a slightly lower range. Verses the BMW it will add 25-35 minutes on a 600 mile trip (from ~30 minutes of charging and one stop to an hour of charging and two stops).

The zonal architecture is a significant advancement but it is also becoming industry standard. GM has adopted it for the 2028 model rollouts. Tesla is there already (CT). Hyundai's IMA is using it and moving to 48V. Geelys (Volvo) SPA3 is zonal.Neue Klasse is zonal. Ford's new universal EV platform for 2027. RJ's claim that only Rivian and Tesla have this is true-ish today but not correct at all by the end of next year.

My 2c

On those 12 hour days, I assume you are starting the day with a 100% charge, and you are able to destination charge over night at wherever you are stopping?

 

[blipit]

I have also road-tripped thousands of miles on my R1s and the reality I have experienced (consistent across three R1s) is that a full 12 hour day of driving adds 30 minutes and one stop on a good day and 40 minutes and two stops on a cold or high head-wind day verses a higher-efficiency, faster charging alternative. This is extremely annoying but not (for me) reason enough to choose one vehicle over another.

I do an 800mile trip(1600mile roundtrip) regularly multiple times a year(the wifey hates taking the EV). No overnight stops, drive straight through. Google maps says it is 12hrs with an ICE vehicle. ABRP has the iX3 in their app. It says the iX3 would take over an hour less, than my R1T. Same trip my brother drives his family in their X7, not kidding they got home 3hr ahead of us last time. My wife said never again in the EV...lol. Rain, de-rated and interupted charging stops, it really does turn it into a really long day of driving.

 

[jrothman]

I'm with you. There is a market for high end vehicles and Rivian has a decent share of it now. They do need to make the R1 more profitable, but providing a product for the higher end of the market is a worthwhile strategy. It's why Ford has Lincoln and GM has Cadillac.

I think part of the road to greater profitability for the R1 (it's already gross margin positive) is the R2. Part sourcing and manufacturing benefits derived from the R2 will be applied to the R1 within the next couple years. Both will drive cost reductions for the overall build of the R1. Maybe they'll switching to a unibody design for it if they realize that it will result in a vehicle of the same or higher quality.

 

[Bullwinkle]

On those 12 hour days, I assume you are starting the day with a 100% charge, and you are able to destination charge over night at wherever you are stopping?

That is exactly what I do.

 

[emoore]

I do an 800mile trip(1600mile roundtrip) regularly multiple times a year(the wifey hates taking the EV). No overnight stops, drive straight through. Google maps says it is 12hrs with an ICE vehicle. ABRP has the iX3 in their app. It says the iX3 would take over an hour less, than my R1T. Same trip my brother drives his family in their X7, not kidding they got home 3hr ahead of us last time. My wife said never again in the EV...lol. Rain, de-rated and interupted charging stops, it really does turn it into a really long day of driving.

I much rather road trip in an EV these days. It's so much more relaxing.

 

[savethemanual]

I think part of the road to greater profitability for the R1 (it's already gross margin positive) is the R2. Part sourcing and manufacturing benefits derived from the R2 will be applied to the R1 within the next couple years. Both will drive cost reductions for the overall build of the R1. Maybe they'll switching to a unibody design for it if they realize that it will result in a vehicle of the same or higher quality.

Once R2 hits it's stride and becomes a money maker for the company, I do think it makes sense for the R1 to go more upscale as the Alpha. Yes, volumes are going to be low but margins high. R2, R3/X are going to print money for them to do this IMO.

 

[TexasBob]

On those 12 hour days, I assume you are starting the day with a 100% charge, and you are able to destination charge over night at wherever you are stopping?

Yes.

 

[blipit]

I much rather road trip in an EV these days. It's so much more relaxing.

I agree, I enjoy roadtripping EVs. I find it entertaining. Planning the route, the charging stops. What charge I should be arriving at. How long do I need to charge to get to the next stop to charge in meat of the charging curve. My wife thinks I am nuts. I will admit, I would be just as comfortable in my wife's GLE which has air suspension and massaging seats. It would be a lot easier as well.

 

[mkhuffman]

Yes.

In my experience, destination charging is very unreliable. But if they can get it right, it is a huge advantage over ICEV travel. If all my travel refueling is done where I park to eat and sleep, it is amazing.

I definitely would pay for that convenience. As it is now, it is a crap shoot that I frequently lose.

 

[mkhuffman]

I much rather road trip in an EV these days. It's so much more relaxing.

I am genuinely interested in why you think it is more relaxing.

Planning the route, the charging stops.
What charge I should be arriving at.
How long do I need to charge to get to the next stop to charge in meat of the charging curve.

This is NOT relaxing, IMO.

My wife thinks I am nuts. I will admit, I would be just as comfortable in my wife's GLE which has air suspension and massaging seats. It would be a lot easier as well.

Your wife is correct.

Yes, traveling in a ICEV is easier. Which means it is more relaxing.

My wife thinks I am nuts also. She did some traveling with me in my Mach-e and we had some really poor public charging experiences. After that she banned the Mach-e as a travel vehicle. I might be able to get her to consider traveling in my R1, but not because it is more relaxing. She would agree just to humor me. Because she thinks I am nuts. And she is correct.

 

[RickRivian]

In my experience, destination charging is very unreliable. But if they can get it right, it is a huge advantage over ICEV travel. If all my travel refueling is done where I park to eat and sleep, it is amazing.

I definitely would pay for that convenience. As it is now, it is a crap shoot that I frequently lose.

The challenge with destination charging, besides whether it is free, and whether it is available when you arrive, or ice'd, is speed. Many hotels offer speeds of 6kWh or less. Arrive empty, and you won't make a big dent by morning. I pick my hotel, do the math, and hit a fast charger if necessary to arrive at the hotel with the right level of charge to hit 100% by morning.

Another challenge is if the spaces are tight. I don't need door dings to get some free charging. Drury Hotels is very nice, they require your room key be setup for their free charging, and the spaces are large.

 

[mkhuffman]

The challenge with destination charging, besides whether it is free, and whether it is available when you arrive, or ice'd, is speed. Many hotels offer speeds of 6kWh or less. Arrive empty, and you won't make a big dent by morning. I pick my hotel, do the, and hit a fast charger if necessary to arrive at the hotel with the right level of charge to hit 100% by morning.

Another challenge is if the spaces are tight. I don't need door dings to get some free charging. Drury Hotels is very nice, they require your room key be setup for their free charging, and the spaces are large.

Yes, public charging still sucks. I agree. Especially destination charging.

One day, in my imaginary future, hotels will offer reserved charging spaces with a 14-50 outlet that we can use while staying there. For a fee, of course. The hotel is a business and needs to get a return on their investment. I am willing to pay for that.

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