Towing Test : Rivian R1T vs. Toyota Tundra

[BigE]

Rivian R1T vs Tundra, pulling a teardrop camper.

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[Sgt Beavis]

This is my primary take away. If you regularly tow long distances, you should probably buy an ICE based truck. If you only tow once in a blue moon, the you can still consider the R1T.

When I look at this and the other TFL videos, I constantly think about the cost of my time spent at a charger. I know the R1T ‘should’ charge faster with the latest OTA update but based on the TFL guys reporting, it’s currently slow as molasses just to get up to 80%. In this test, you’d need two charges up to 100% to get the range of that Tundra. Of course you can do several shorter charges but that might not be an option with the current state of charging infrastructure.

Anyways, I’m not doing the math here but we all know time is money. If you tow a lot, the R1T can get extremely expensive when it comes to your time. If you rarely ever tow, then the R1T can still be a good fit.

 

[DanielM]

The final result for towing 2,000 lbs during a Colorado winter was approximately 168 mile range. I wonder if I’d be able to tow a 4000 lb boat 140 miles in California on a single charge….

 

[COdogman]

Dammit. They clearly went right through where I live in Longmont on their loop. I knew I should have stalked those guys.

I’m not someone who tows anything, but is it redundant that it asks you on the screen if you want to switch to tow mode after plugging into the 7 pin connector? What else would that get used for? Or is it just to make sure you don’t forget to turn on tow mode?

 

[crashmtb]

I’m not someone who tows anything, but is it redundant that it asks you on the screen if you want to switch to tow mode after plugging into the 7 pin connector? What else would that get used for? Or is it just to make sure you don’t forget to turn on tow mode?

if you plug in something like a hitch mounted carrier that’s got lights on it because it or its cargo obscure the taillights, you wouldn’t want tow mode.

it‘s probably for that kind of thing AND to act as a reminder.

 

[moosehead]

The final result for towing 2,000 lbs during a Colorado winter was approximately 168 mile range. I wonder if I’d be able to tow a 4000 lb boat 140 miles in California on a single charge….

See TFL’s Ike tow for potential answer to your question. SWAG feels like you would be cutting it close and need to keep elevation gains to a minimum and have a more temperate climate. Socal or Norcal?

Their Ike test was 70 some odd miles, with 8k tow load and what looks to be medium-high wind resistance, 28-39F ambient temps, 5k‘+ elevation gain, 2k’ descent. IIRC SOC started at 99% and ended 18% or so?

Unanswered question is does rapid discharge rate like that experienced in Ike tow test cause battery temps to increase dramatically, or battery recharge rates to throttle differently, or both? Their battery charge curve seems to indicate both but no battery therm was available.

 

[Rhidan]

Using the EPA numbers (33.7 kWh in 1 gallon of gasoline), the Tundra used the equivalent of 348.72 kWh of electricity to travel the same distance the R1T did with 122.85 kWh. [I realize the problems with the EPA number, but not sure what else to use].

In Denver, the standard household electricity rate is $0.1105 a kWh. He said he used approximately 122.85 kWh to go 153 miles. That’s about 9 cents a mile. [It would be much greater if he had to stop and DCFC]. The Tundra made the trip in about 30 cents a mile.

That all said, I am an electric enthusiast who has no problem recommending that people stick with ICE vehicles if they regularly use their vehicle to tow long distances (emphasis on regularly use). It’s maybe the one use case where the technology is not quite there to recommended electric over ICE. I have a buddy who is very interested in the R1T, but he also wants to use it to tow a large boat. I had to give the news that its difficult to tow long distances with an electric truck.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

Dammit. They clearly went right through where I live in Longmont on their loop. I knew I should have stalked those guys.

I’m not someone who tows anything, but is it redundant that it asks you on the screen if you want to switch to tow mode after plugging into the 7 pin connector? What else would that get used for? Or is it just to make sure you don’t forget to turn on tow mode?

Yea, I think they start in Boulder and head down 36 to I25. From I25 they drive up to Longmont and travel down 119 until is splits off onto Foothills Pkwy. That puts right next to their office on Valmont.

 

[manitou202]

Towing is the Achilles heel of electric trucks.

EV trucks will be fine for local towing, but not long trips (>500 miles). Realistically in order to be relatively competitive with an ICE truck, they need about 300 miles of range when towing. 300 miles of range when charging from 10%-80% is 210 miles of driving. That's 3hrs at highway speeds which is reasonable between filling up. Then the charging would also need to be better to reduce the 10%-80% charging time to 20 minutes or less.

Assuming there aren't a lot of gains to be made in terms of efficiency of the Rivian, this would require a 270kWh battery pack, and an average charging speed of 512kW (plus a little more for losses). Assumption is the current battery pack is 135kWh with a usable capacity of 122kWh. I might be slightly off in my numbers, but they are generally in the ballpark.

That's a big leap from where we are today.

 

[E.S.]

Towing is the Achilles heel of electric trucks.

To be fair, it's the weakness of all vehicles. The difference being is that I.C.E.s have a lot more options to help mitigate that mileage loss (larger gas tank capacity, quicker refueling rates, etc, etc).

That we'll see greater ranges when battery tech starts churning out more efficient, energy dense batteries is a no-brainer. Just a matter of time.

 

[mike22co]

I think it's fair to say that EV and ICE will have to coexist for a long time. Each has benefits that will be applicable to various owners. I tow a camper 3-5 times per year and having the R1S will certainly change where I can go and how long it will take to get there, at least today, once the infrastructure is expanded, that becomes a better experience than today.

If I had to tow weekly, ICE would be the way to go, even with the added headaches of oil, def and drive trains.

But the EV will be great for the other 98% of my driving, which makes sense for me. I'd like to see less fear-mongering about "pushing everything to EV" that scares people and makes them dig their heels in on either side of the push.

The way I see it playing out is:

1. More EV are sold and used to reduce fuel consumption and freeing up gas pumps for ICE owners. (next 3-5 years)
2. People start to get a better feel of which type of vehicle best suits their needs with more experience with all collective drivers. (next 3-5 years)
3. Charging infrastructure continues to build and make for more reliable and predictable experiences. (next 3-8 years)
4. Battery and electric motor technology improve leaps an bounds over what we have today, providing EV replacements for more use-cases (next 5-15 years)

 

[chicagoair]

Towing is the Achilles heel of electric trucks.

EV trucks will be fine for local towing, but not long trips (>500 miles). Realistically in order to be relatively competitive with an ICE truck, they need about 300 miles of range when towing. 300 miles of range when charging from 10%-80% is 210 miles of driving. That's 3hrs at highway speeds which is reasonable between filling up.

We all travel with different styles. I currently tow our Airstream with a gas CUV with a 14 gallon tank. We get about 120 miles-150 miles per tank and stop every 90 minutes - 2 hours. While the tank limits us, we like to stop often with the trailer and stretch. We do long trips but try not to tow over 400 miles a day, it's more tiring than normal driving.

I think a R1T Max Pack with 21s will get me better range than I see today with the CUV, and the charge stops will be fine for meal breaks and walking the dog. On a 400 miles day we would need 2-3 stops.

My biggest concerns are the availability of the charging networks in inner mountain west (specifically Idaho where we live) and hitting slow chargers that would turn a less than hour stop into a multi-hour affair.

 

[ads75]

My biggest concerns are the availability of the charging networks in inner mountain west (specifically Idaho where we live) and hitting slow chargers that would turn a less than hour stop into a multi-hour affair.

Don't forget about potentially having to unhook/re-hook the trailer to charge every time you stop.

 

[branden]

Not terrible, IMO.

 

[r1t_kev]

I find this video to be more relatable than the Ike Gauntlet video, but both are of interest. I think what really comes to light in both cases is capability vs. practicality of towing application. Practicality is going to be subjective based upon the scenario and personal tolerance level for inconvenience, but it's unsurprisingly very capable

This is all part "Hey look, this truck can do truck stuff" and part "just cause you can, doesn't mean you should". I'm years and years away from having the time/inclination to have a teardrop, so all of this towing stuff is marginal to me. Fun to see though!

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