R1 Strut Damper Assembly - Teardown Video

[impulsoren]

Now I’m wondering what the bulk of the “leaking air drooping suspension” problems are due to: airbag itself leaking, o-ring leaking, or hose connection leaking. What kind of connection is between the air hose/airbag? A compression fitting or some sort of clip?

Sponsored

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Now I’m wondering what the bulk of the “leaking air drooping suspension” problems are due to: airbag itself leaking, o-ring leaking, or hose connection leaking. What kind of connection is between the air hose/airbag? A compression fitting or some sort of clip?

I'm wondering what happens to the failed units, since they are serviceable. Do they get junked or refurbed and put back into circulation in somehow.

 

[R1Thor]

Now I’m wondering what the bulk of the “leaking air drooping suspension” problems are due to: airbag itself leaking, o-ring leaking, or hose connection leaking. What kind of connection is between the air hose/airbag? A compression fitting or some sort of clip?

I'm wondering what happens to the failed units, since they are serviceable. Do they get junked or refurbed and put back into circulation in somehow.

Looking at this assembly, it all seems pretty straightforward. I wonder why no one (Rivian) is offering a rebuild kit? Unless a seal had to be permanently destroyed to disassemble to this point. Seems like a lot of O-Rings to replace, but surely that's much more economical than replacing the entire assembly every time.

 

[godfodder0901]

Looking at this assembly, it all seems pretty straightforward. I wonder why no one (Rivian) is offering a rebuild kit? Unless a seal had to be permanently destroyed to disassemble to this point. Seems like a lot of O-Rings to replace, but surely that's much more economical than replacing the entire assembly every time.

When these parts fail under warranty, Rivian can usually warranty them back to their supplier. Makes no sense for Rivian to rebuild them.

 

[R1Thor]

When these parts fail under warranty, Rivian can usually warranty them back to their supplier. Makes no sense for Rivian to rebuild them.

I don't disagree with you.
I'm thinking about the 'when not under warranty' part.

 

[SwampNut]

I don't disagree with you.
I'm thinking about the 'when not under warranty' part.

Then they get to charge you for them. Winning.

 

[R1Thor]

Then they get to charge you for them. Winning.

Again, I'm not disagreeing, but I posited "I wonder why no one..." (I did include Rivian, but I wasn't being exclusive).

Seems like the most difficult part of the refurb is going to be removing these from the vehicle (with specialized tools are required mostly to depressurize the hydraulics). I can spec gaskets all day long. I do it for my day job more than I care to. So, let's get this taken off the vehicle and disassembled, and putting together a rebuild kit would be somewhat trivial

If we 1- want to keep our vehicles outside of bumper-to-bumper warranty and 2- want the right to repair /DIY to be pervasive, these are the things aftermarket and garage tinkerers should be able to get their hands on, in my opinion.

 

[SwampNut]

"I wonder why no one..."

For the aftermarket, potential market and revenue vs cost. I'm involved in a number of niche hobbies including other vehicles (motorcycles, boats). On a recent old bike rebuild, I bought the last of an item in the US. That's it. "Why doesn't someone make these..." Because there aren't enough of us to buy them, and plus, the Chinese are already making them super cheap, it just takes 3-6 weeks to get. The Chinese...make a motorcycle product, and they will clone it next week. I have another bike with a clone part that works like shit. $14. The original costs $150.

Fact is, the number of people who would consider the aftermarket and research it and find out how to do it without Rivian is TINY. You and I are the 1% who go to car forums like this, and would "dare" to leave the cocoon provided by official service channels.

 

[R1Thor]

For the aftermarket, potential market and revenue vs cost. I'm involved in a number of niche hobbies including other vehicles (motorcycles, boats). On a recent old bike rebuild, I bought the last of an item in the US. That's it. "Why doesn't someone make these..." Because there aren't enough of us to buy them, and plus, the Chinese are already making them super cheap, it just takes 3-6 weeks to get. The Chinese...make a motorcycle product, and they will clone it next week. I have another bike with a clone part that works like shit. $14. The original costs $150.

Fact is, the number of people who would consider the aftermarket and research it and find out how to do it without Rivian is TINY. You and I are the 1% who go to car forums like this, and would "dare" to leave the cocoon provided by official service channels.

You're probably right.

However, I might suggest that given the absolute absurdity of the cost to replace these, there might be a market here. I've seen quotes from $1700/corner to over $14,000 for the entire vehicle (granted, we don't have the full scope, necessarily, so may also require replacing valve blocks and aren't just leaking dampers proper).

Personally, I likely won't be able to stomach the cost of replacing dampers outside of warranty. It has me more worried than I typically am for things like these. So, if I can figure out how to safely breakdown the hydraulics, I'm also highly likely to try to repair these myself if it would come down to it (fingers crossed)!

One thing I find very interesting is how random it seems. Some people seem to have zero issues and do all kinds of cool off-pavement adventures with 100k miles on their vehicles. Others seem to use their Rivian to get groceries on the weekend and have had dampers replaced within 20,000 miles. Sounds very much like a process control issue.

 

[SwampNut]

However, I might suggest that given the absolute absurdity of the cost to replace these, there might be a market here.

I'd love to be able to agree with you. I've just seen so much of the workings of things like this for a limited market. BUT...it will eventually happen. When there are enough off-warranty Rivians out there.

Personally, I likely won't be able to stomach the cost of replacing dampers outside of warranty.

I recently paid $3700 for a bumper to bumper extended service plan that goes until 2032, and the dampers were top of my list of why it's worth it.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

You're probably right.

However, I might suggest that given the absolute absurdity of the cost to replace these, there might be a market here. I've seen quotes from $1700/corner to over $14,000 for the entire vehicle (granted, we don't have the full scope, necessarily, so may also require replacing valve blocks and aren't just leaking dampers proper).

Personally, I likely won't be able to stomach the cost of replacing dampers outside of warranty. It has me more worried than I typically am for things like these. So, if I can figure out how to safely breakdown the hydraulics, I'm also highly likely to try to repair these myself if it would come down to it (fingers crossed)!

One thing I find very interesting is how random it seems. Some people seem to have zero issues and do all kinds of cool off-pavement adventures with 100k miles on their vehicles. Others seem to use their Rivian to get groceries on the weekend and have had dampers replaced within 20,000 miles. Sounds very much like a process control issue.

It would take Rivian more time and manpower to rebuild and reinstall. That’s likely why they replace with new. Plus, replacing whole units removes all of the failed unit out of the picture. But, yeah, unknown who ends up with the failed ones and what is done with them. I think most of the failures we have seen are result of manufacturing challenges during COVID. Most things are made in China. Even o-rings. And during that time factories were shut down several times. The stoppages and subsequent restarts probably affected consistency in QC. There was also ownership change in that time frame from whomever to Tenneco? So it’s possible there was a management void of sorts that affected quality?

 

[R1Thor]

I'd love to be able to agree with you. I've just seen so much of the workings of things like this for a limited market. BUT...it will eventually happen. When there are enough off-warranty Rivians out there.



I recently paid $3700 for a bumper to bumper extended service plan that goes until 2032, and the dampers were top of my list of why it's worth it.

Did you verify that the dampers are covered?
I spoke with a few people on Discord who bought some (XCare, I think) and never checked the fine print or verified. Dampers are considered wear items in their policies, so guess what isn't covered?

I was really hoping Rivian would have their extended warranty available by now. As far as I'm aware, they're planning to release a tier that covers 1 time wear items (even a set of brakes+rotors, windshield wipers, etc). That'd be verily worthwhile.

 

[SwampNut]

Did you verify that the dampers are covered?

It's exclusionary coverage, with the typical maintenance item exclusions. Suspension is covered. If this doesn't make sense, google "exclusionary coverage" and only buy this type of coverage, never the named item coverage. I've never read the Xcare policies. I would expect some challenges on this level of suspension since normally a shock WEARING OUT is not covered, but breakage would be.

"Car bounces" is not covered; it's wear.

"Car is slammed to the ground and not driveable" covered breakage.

 

[Jonger1150]

I bet the noise that gets worse over time could be fixed with new o-rings and seals.

 

[R1Thor]

It's exclusionary coverage, with the typical maintenance item exclusions. Suspension is covered. If this doesn't make sense, google "exclusionary coverage" and only buy this type of coverage, never the named item coverage. I've never read the Xcare policies. I would expect some challenges on this level of suspension since normally a shock WEARING OUT is not covered, but breakage would be.

"Car bounces" is not covered; it's wear.

"Car is slammed to the ground and not driveable" covered breakage.

That's good to know.

My only hesitation is that it seems (to me) that most of these don't fail catastrophically at first (and correct me if I'm wrong, but you seldom see them completely fail altogether). They start leaking over time.
So, if I'm being overly-pedantic, let me know, but if I infer from your definition, you'll likely be living with some leaky, crappy struts until the vehicle becomes nigh undriveable. And if you started complaining before they "broke" you'd be effectively telling the insurance company 'these are in the process of wearing out.'

Slippery slope. I'll be interested to see if anyone effectively has their dampers covered under these warranties with regularity before I would buy one. And at this point, with my vehicle at the mileage it's at, I'm more inclined to just throw all of the money I'd otherwise be spending on a warranty into a total market fund (FKSAX, anyone?) and sitting on it hoping I won't need it.

Sponsored