At what point is the R1T outdated?

[Capt_Lou]

Getting a new vehicle every 3-5 years is a ridiculous extravagance.

I thought the whole point of BEV’s was to lessen our environmental impact while still having a functional vehicle (that also happens to have a bunch of other advantages over ICE)?

The level of consumerism in this country has gotten out of control. Remember when you didn’t know a new product was coming out until you saw it in stores or advertised during football? Now we extend interest free loans to cutthroat private enterprises to subsidize a product we’ve only seen in renderings and that may never be delivered and then we go online and endlessly speculate about how great it’s going to be.

You want to talk outdated? Take a look at my 1998 Mitsubishi Montero. Still does everything I need it to and parts are cheap as hell (cause they’re all in the junk yard).

I plan on keeping whatever BEV I get for at least 10 years, more likely 15.

<Insert obligatory “old man yells at cloud meme here”>

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[KiloV]

You are correct. In most cases, the additional weight and cost of the battery can not be justified. But if you are losing half your range while towing and have to unhook the trailer every time you charge, that 1000 mile range start to look vey attractive.

Not specifically Rivian-related, but this trailer concept from Airstream is a really cool idea. One of these would probably cost a billion dollars, and it doesn't solve the general use trailer issue, but the video is worth a watch:
Airstream eStream Concept | Looking to the Future with Bob Wheeler and McKay Featherstone - YouTube

 

[Max]

Not specifically Rivian-related, but this trailer concept from Airstream is a really cool idea. One of these would probably cost a billion dollars, and it doesn't solve the general use trailer issue, but the video is worth a watch:
Airstream eStream Concept | Looking to the Future with Bob Wheeler and McKay Featherstone - YouTube

Very interesting but with that kinda money, I may buy a water front property instead to extend my range.

 

[SeaGeo]

Why would they not enable it now? Unless they plan to add this to the list of things they monetize after vehicle is sold.

This is the thing that bugs me about it too. I can think of a few reasons:
1. Wanting to make sure they have reliability down first. Baby steps. Particularly with EA.
2. Maybe there are issues with implementing a handshake to say "I will give you 800v OR 400V" reliably, and they need some additional communication with RAN to do that.
3. They very well may want to try and monetize that.

 

[the long way downunder]

Agreed. If better battery technology becomes available five years from now that would allow OEM's to pack 1000+ miles of range into a battery pack the size/weight of a R1 battery pack, I think the choice would be to offer a ~400-mile pack that was smaller and lighter, rather than maximizing range. The critical point of improvement is charging performance, rather than packing as many miles of range as you can in the vehicle's physical envelope. If you can charge up your shiny new solid state battery pack with another 400 miles of range in less than 10 minutes, why would you need 1000 miles of range?

The use case of 1000 miles' range is towing on-road, or off-road, overland, touring and camping, or using the vehicle V2G as an emergency backup generator for a dwelling or in connection with a solar array for peak shaving and buffering across periods of low sunlight.

 

[the long way downunder]

And you think the current transmission grid has the excess capacity to support additional 2.1 MW loads every 50 miles down interstates?

Some of that $5B is going into copper (and probably straight to giant corporations who will gladly take a hamburger today and build a charging station on Tuesday.)
Somewhat ironically, just as the Supercharger network is a strategic advantage and long term revenue channel as well as a proprietary lock-in of customers and products, in building their network, Tesla has solved the problems and shown how it can be done. From acquiring land to the logistics and regulatory compliance (e.g. working with cities and counties to provision sufficient grid tie-ins) to the engineering and equipment for quick, cost effective installation (and showing some of the design mistakes like heavy conductors instead of liquid cooled cables, and vulnerability to vandalism.)

 

[emoore]

The biggest upgrade I care about would be charging speed (800V). I'm hoping that the max pack will have a better charging curve than the large pack. Other than that I really just want something that I can connect my phone to and stream music. Since I tend to keep my cars a long time (22 and 11 years old for both my cars now) I plan on keeping this truck 15ish years. If I could upgrade the battery pack I'd probably keep it even longer.

 

[the long way downunder]

The biggest areas where I feel the Truck seems outdated compared to modern EVs are:
1) Heat pump HVAC for added range. Make whatever excuses you want, but these have been around for a long time and really help in cold weather.

I think the heat pump is a mistake but not a deal-breaker and like Tesla, will probably arrive as a mid-cycle upgrade. Not that the Tesla design excels in cold weather – they're taking some heat about that … : )

2) Camera quality. There is no precedent for substantially improving the image quality via software in a vehicle application so people should expect what you see to be what you get

I thought the camera quality was satisfactory during the First Mile drive. I'd like to see a 360º view and a "spotter" view (all software) and maybe some wireless camera integration to be able to stick a gopro under the body for fun as much as real practicality. Washer jets on all cameras would be good. Removable door mirrors with replacement camera pods would be great for functionality and mpg.

3) No dash camera. Easy to say it will be added but not a certainty. A big omission for liability. Our Tesla's dash cam has literally saved us tens of thousands of dollars. Gear guard is a party trick and not meaningfully useful.

I didn't realize there's no dashcam mode. That's both cheap to do aftermarket and surely easily implemented in software along with their parking sentry mode.

4) No streaming for LONG charging sessions.

Streaming? I don't use it in the Model X. We have iPads and phones for data.

All that said, I agree that the biggest issue is really the risk of the company going under. Six months ago, I was really encouraged that they seemed to actually be focused and on track to deliver a thoughtfully designed product to consumers. Since then, my confidence has substantially waned as I feel they are more concerned with juicing the IPO/stock price than actually getting hardware out there. Seems like a constant stream of:

-Delays with very poor customer communication
-Claiming employee trucks are deliveries when they are actually internal QA
-Building plush service and experience centers when there are no trucks to sell.
-Installing pointless level 2 chargers for optics
-Run a social media gestapo to protect the stock price
-Trying to build three different vehicles
-Working on new factories when there are no trucks to sell
-Released zero concrete information on the full charging curve
-No price adjustments despite rampant inflation and supply pressure

IMO, it would have been better for the company to have delivered a bunch of trucks that had a few build issues than this constant radio silence while they try to make everything perfect. Our family will be refunding and moving on if there are not several hundred actual customer deliveries by April. Apologies for the gloom.

Communications has been a weakness. Even the video today of RJ and Sandy Munro raised as many questions or reminded us of unanswered questions as it did shed any new light on where we're at.
I don't see the point in cancelling now. I'd wait until you get the call then decide whether you want the vehicle.
AS for gestapo, I'm not following.
I'd definitely like Rivian to have some spare marketing person put together a few infographics on real world charging, the curve and plans to improve vehicles with OTA upgrades.
The service centers take time to build and train staff, so I think they have to be ahead of the curve.
I'm in favor of zero defect cars, not a "good luck" level of defects where some vehicles are better than others. Tesla chose the "good luck" approach and it stinks. I've had three zero defect Teslas with good paint and I count myself lucky. Reports of the latest "flagship" S Plaid with (major) defects and disappointing paint discourage me from rolling the dice a fourth time till Tesla gets around to bringing its QA up to snuff. I think Rivian is wise to learn from Tesla's shortcomings.

 

[KiloV]

The use case of 1000 miles' range is towing on-road, or off-road, overland, touring and camping, or using the vehicle V2G as an emergency backup generator for a dwelling or in connection with a solar array for peak shaving and buffering across periods of low sunlight.

No denying that those are valid use cases. I just don't know that OEMs like Rivian, Tesla, Ford, etc, are going to want to build those products. If those OEMs can build a lighter, cheaper battery pack that has 400 miles of range, charges really quickly, and appeals to the masses, will they have sufficient economic motivation to build a product that satisfies the use cases that you describe? I don't know.

 

[emoore]

I think that 400 mile range is going to be the max, maybe 500. Even when solid state batteries get here (which I think is still at least 10 years away). Automakers are going to save money by putting in less battery rather than increasing range. The biggest variable is charging speed. I think getting to 350kw will be almost the equivalent of ICE road tripping right now.

 

[E.S.]

That's like saying i have range anxiety in my prius c, driving 360 miles and getting about 250 mi per tank. I just stop twice to fill up.

Several people will understand this and not fret. A good chunk of other people won't no matter how much mathematically (or logically) you prove to them.

 

[Max]

If I could upgrade the battery pack I'd probably keep it even longer.

That is a big question for me. I can’t see ever needing more power or better interior or softwear toys. But with all the new battery tech talking about 1000 mile range and faster charging, being able to replace the battery without being tied to Rivian can go a long way in reducing regrets. Especially if Rivian goes out of business. I have no idea how to find out if there is any proprietary tech preventing third party replacing battery without issues. Those of you that know how these things work please pitch in.

 

[rraj2k81]

My biggest concern with this being outdated has to do with the hardware they are building this with, especially the CPU, microcontrollers, RAM, Storage, and controllers.

The R1s were designed and engineered to be manufactured for 2020/2021, and now it's going into 2022-2024. So, the hardware is already 2 - 3 years old, before even hitting the market. And then consider Rivian's 5-year warranty, that would put these early HW to have a minimum shelf life of 7 - 8 years.
As they upgrade the software, add more features and functionality, add more real time processing for functionalities like Driver+/Drive recorders/real time navigation, couple of questions come up,

1. How capable is the current HW or how future proof is it?
2. How much of it can it handle as they upgrade the software before they start conking out?
3. Can this HW last another 6 years without conking out or getting locked out due to limitation for new functionality?

There is a reason Tesla charges an extra 10K for the FSD capability. So, they have a dedicated microprocessor to handle the FSD capability and not burden the inbuilt microprocessors.

And then for someone like me who owns vehicles for the long haul (my current vehicle is 11 years old, and I have owned it for 8), that would put this platform easily into a 10-year cycle.

Based on Rivian's reputation, I haven't seen any evidence they put any foresight into their planning and logistics, so I have some real concerns with the HW they have designed the R1 platform on. I also don't know if they are retroactively upgrading these HW as they build new vehicles or plan to retrofit them as they become obsolete. Only time will tell.

Hopefully by next year when I am inline to get mine, I will have more information about these questions.

 

[skyote]

The R1s were designed and engineered to be manufactured for 2020/2021, and now it's going into 2022-2024.

That's the case with all automakers, especially the legacies. In fact, legacies use antiquated microprocessor designs for most things...we should be in better shape with Rivian.

My hope is that the architecture is designed in a modular fashion that will enable upgrades if required.

 

[crashmtb]

My hope is that the architecture is designed in a modular fashion that will enable upgrades if required.

Most things are possible, if you’re willing to apply enough money. Like adding radar cruise on Mercedes’ for example.

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