Bi-Directional Charging??? When???

[Jonger1150]

Well, most of the world, except about half the US. And maybe a few in other petrol and/or far right countries.

The Grim Reaper will take care of much of that.

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[Rivian Owner]

mk, nobody I know likes rules (mandates) that make no sense and cost money with little to no benefit. But mandates like building a safe plane or a safe car are necessary as Boeing, Tesla, and other companies have shown in recent years. Mandates to make sure the food you eat is safe are, at least from my perspective, essential. The "free market" idea is good in a utopian world, but we don't live in Utopia and in our world mankind isn't known for taking the high road and sacrificing profit to protect people. Or to put it another way, a true free market will kill people.

A mandate for BiDi charging could help save lives and reduce the governments costs to support a community after a disaster with minimal to zero cost for the end user or the tax payer. A big part of the reason I went shopping for an EV was for a large battery that wouldn't just hang on the wall in my garage, but could provide both transportation and backup power for my appliances in an emergency. If I can be self-sufficient after a natural disaster, I'm one less person the government has to take care of.

I understand your distaste for needless regulation, but before you bash a regulation you might want to explore both the pros and the cons before writing an idea off.

 

[Jiji]

I am against mandates. I think it is better for the free market to develop features and functionality and offer it to us so we can buy it if we want to, or not.

You must be young and naive to think the free market will always deliver for you, just look to the recent past and see how that worked out.

People were dying from excessive air pollution in cities, the Great Lakes were turning eutrophic, acid rain was killing forests and life preserving ozone was rapidly disappearing. Sorry that your precious free markets caused these societal problems but mandates were absolutely necessary to start fixing them

Tailpipe emission reductions were mandated, phosphates and secondary/tertiary sewage treatment were mandated, sulfur dioxide removal from diesel and coal fired power plants were mandated, and the entire world banned chlorofluorocarbons and other ozone-depleting aerosols.

Mandates are an absolutely essential component of modern society, being opposed to all mandates is just a knee jerk response, after all the world was filled with people that argued these historic mandates weren’t necessary but you would hard pressed to find them as they have been long forgotten for being on the wrong side of history.

 

[mkhuffman]

You must be young and naive to think the free market will always deliver for you, just look to the recent past and see how that worked out.

People were dying from excessive air pollution in cities, the Great Lakes were turning eutrophic, acid rain was killing forests and life preserving ozone was rapidly disappearing. Sorry that your precious free markets caused these societal problems but mandates were absolutely necessary to start fixing them

Tailpipe emission reductions were mandated, phosphates and secondary/tertiary sewage treatment were mandated, sulfur dioxide removal from diesel and coal fired power plants were mandated, and the entire world banned chlorofluorocarbons and other ozone-depleting aerosols.

Mandates are an absolutely essential component of modern society, being opposed to all mandates is just a knee jerk response, after all the world was filled with people that argued these historic mandates weren’t necessary but you would hard pressed to find them as they have been long forgotten for being on the wrong side of history.

Nope.

 

[mkhuffman]

mk, nobody I know likes rules (mandates) that make no sense and cost money with little to no benefit. But mandates like building a safe plane or a safe car are necessary as Boeing, Tesla, and other companies have shown in recent years. Mandates to make sure the food you eat is safe are, at least from my perspective, essential. The "free market" idea is good in a utopian world, but we don't live in Utopia and in our world mankind isn't known for taking the high road and sacrificing profit to protect people. Or to put it another way, a true free market will kill people.

A mandate for BiDi charging could help save lives and reduce the governments costs to support a community after a disaster with minimal to zero cost for the end user or the tax payer. A big part of the reason I went shopping for an EV was for a large battery that wouldn't just hang on the wall in my garage, but could provide both transportation and backup power for my appliances in an emergency. If I can be self-sufficient after a natural disaster, I'm one less person the government has to take care of.

I understand your distaste for needless regulation, but before you bash a regulation you might want to explore both the pros and the cons before writing an idea off.

I don't want to keep arguing about this. I don't agree with you and everyone else who thinks the government is better at making decisions than free people are - like you and me. Politicians and many scientists are idiots. I don't trust them to do much of anything, including ordering me around. So let's just agree to disagree. We all are fans of Rivian, so let's get back to that.

 

[vandy1981]

The Grim Reaper will take care of much of that.

Don't be so sure of that--some of the loudest right-wing skeptics are millennials.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

One of the moral leaders at my high school was the coach who had survived 50 bombing missions in World War II. His generation saved the world -- they believed passionately in democracy and disagreed about just about everything else, and they practiced what they preached.

One of this coach's sayings was, "Do not do things that would harm society if everyone did them." Environmental pollution is only one of the things that fit this description....

Best to all!

 

[emoore]

I don't want to keep arguing about this. I don't agree with you and everyone else who thinks the government is better at making decisions than free people are - like you and me. Politicians and many scientists are idiots. I don't trust them to do much of anything, including ordering me around. So let's just agree to disagree. We all are fans of Rivian, so let's get back to that.

Totally agree that most politicians are idiots. But scientists? They spend their lives studying their field but are somehow “idiots”. Not buying it.

 

[mkhuffman]

Totally agree that most politicians are idiots. But scientists? They spend their lives studying their field but are somehow “idiots”. Not buying it.

Your response is reasonable since I didn't provide context. And I am glad we agree that our politicians are idiots.

Most scientists are smart about the areas they study. But they are idiots when it comes to areas outside their specialty, such as recommending public policy. They either don't understand the economic and social impacts of their recommended policy positions, or don't care. I think it is a mixture of both, actually. They are totally unqualified to advise our idiot politicians regarding laws and regulations that are used to control us.

Therefore we have to rely on our politicians to decern the best way to address what scientists are reporting, and because we know politicians are idiots, they fail to do it well. Repeatedly. IMO.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Mandates for this sort of thing are good. Yes, mandates can be harmful, and the free market is responsible for most of the world's innovations, but the free market and public companies have one goal. That goal is to make money.

Mandates should be used to prevent businesses from making money by harming society or for the public good. Mandating that all EVs can feed power into the grid baked into them allows power companies to pay EV owners when electricity demand is higher to prevent black and brownouts. It also decentralizes the grid, bolstering national security and the robust nature of the grid.

Politicians aren't idiots either, well, all of them anyway. Most problems cannot be solved entirely by the government because the world and, by extension, people are imperfect. Laws and rules are blunt instruments that incentivize people to do the best for society. If everyone were driven by altruism, we wouldn't need mandates or laws, but most people aren't. Many politicians skim off the top, and this is a real problem, but it isn't that we cannot solve society's problems.

We also cannot force people to act only in the common goals of society, as this reduces or eliminates individual motivation to succeed. The best thing politicians and society at large can do is try to make personal motivations and group motivations align. In the case of this mandate requiring EVs to have the capability to feed the power grid it allows municipalities and utilities to incentivize individuals to strengthen the collective power grid.

 

[Jonger1150]

Your response is reasonable since I didn't provide context. And I am glad we agree that our politicians are idiots.

Most scientists are smart about the areas they study. But they are idiots when it comes to areas outside their specialty, such as recommending public policy. They either don't understand the economic and social impacts of their recommended policy positions, or don't care. I think it is a mixture of both, actually. They are totally unqualified to advise our idiot politicians regarding laws and regulations that are used to control us.

Therefore we have to rely on our politicians to decern the best way to address what scientists are reporting, and because we know politicians are idiots, they fail to do it well. Repeatedly. IMO.

Perhaps leave climate science up to climatologists. Now, that's a situation where they all agree, with the exception being Judith Curry. It's every climate scientist and 1 dissenter.

Out of the thousands of climate scientists, guess which single climate scientist a certain orange skinned president wanted to appoint to environmental policy leadership? Yea.... if you guessed Judith Curry you would be correct.

 

[mkhuffman]

Perhaps leave climate science up to climatologists. Now, that's a situation where they all agree, with the exception being Judith Curry. It's every climate scientist and 1 dissenter.

Out of the thousands of climate scientists, guess which single climate scientist a certain orange skinned president wanted to appoint to environmental policy leadership? Yea.... if you guessed Judith Curry you would be correct.

I disagree and stand by my previous post.

There is no need for me to add anything else, and your post is definitely well over the line into politics. I was trying to keep it generic to avoid the wrath of the admin...

 

[mike813]

Yes. The Anker has 1600 or 1000 watts of input. As luck would have it the Rivian has 1500 watts of output. the battery should qualify for the 30% tax credit so this was a good short term alternative until I install solar. But currently I pay .11 per kwh and installers in my area are $3 kwh and 10k for a battery so it is hard to justify a $50k solar installation

@Fmc @SeaGeo I was looking at this Anker Solix F3800 as well last week as a storm was headed my way... I like that this unit has a bit more output than other similarly priced options. My ideal scenario (until we have true V2H as others are discussing in this thread) would be to use the 240V output on this Anker to plug it in to my generator input next to my electrical panel while I have the Anker plugged in to my R1S trickle charging. In my research it looked like this unit could NOT be charged by the Rivian (120V) while it is powering the house at the same time (240V). Hopefully I'm either mis-reading something or that can be addressed by a future hardware or software update.

https://www.anker.com/products/a1790111

 

[Jiji]

I don't want to keep arguing about this. I don't agree with you and everyone else who thinks the government is better at making decisions than free people are - like you and me.

Scientists are idiots, politicians are idiots, so we rely on random free people like you and me. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. And just what are free people, shouldn’t everyone have a stake in this decision.

And how did we arrive at this sad situation? Because of an absurd paranoia of of a EV charging mandate that doesn’t even exist.

 

[mkhuffman]

Scientists are idiots, politicians are idiots, so we rely on random free people like you and me. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

It's not. Quite the opposite, in fact.

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