Cancelling my Pre-order, thoughts inside from test drive

[ksumnole]

I'm going to make this post a list of all the things that led to my decision to cancel my pre-order. Hopefully this information will be read by someone who can use the information to make a better product in the future! My whole investigation into the Rivian software/hardware has essentially been a good-faith investigation into the brand.

• Above all, the lack of CarPlay/Android Auto is the biggest factor in my decision to cancel. The Rivian software is not better than CarPlay, and based on the other posts that I've read spanning years of Rivian software developments, I can comfortably say at this point that the speed of software iteration at Rivian is not confidence-inspiring. I don't want to wait for the Rivian software to "maybe someday" duplicate all the functions already present in CarPlay, when I can simply just use CarPlay right now. Below I'll list things that I cannot duplicate from CarPlay/AA within the Rivian software ecosystem:
  • HomeKit support for accessories (and Google/Alexa integrations on the Android side), especially a garage door opener. Granted, Rivian has the best implementation of this in their software because they emulate an old radio frequency based dumb-opener, but I need this functionality on day 1, at no charge.
  • Waze. I want the mapping software to have a social element to it. Waze essentially is a democratic service that allows for alerts that would otherwise be illegal/gray area if integrated into major mapping apps like Google Maps. I want to know where the speed cameras are, where obstructions are, and I want to hear from other drivers what they think about local roads, whether that info is "politically correct" or not.
  • Apple Music, Apple Podcasts, or whatever music app I want. I don't want to rely on Rivian software building an app. I want to be able to use any media app at all times.
  • Apple Maps is simply better than Google Maps for navigation. I use both Apple Maps and Google Maps, and Apple's maps generally are the most performant, and look the most polished. The old days of Apple Maps leading you off a cliff into a lake have been passed over by almost a decade now.
  • Personal wallpapers. I don't want to look at a large scale cartoon drawing of the car I'm already driving in. It's a lot like flying an American flag in America. "You're in America, so no need to state the obvious." I want customization.
  • I don't want to be "advertised" the brand at every turn in the software. CarPlay/AA does a fantastic job removing the car branding so I can have my own personal customization to make the car feel like "mine".
  • I'm able to write my own apps and use them in CarPlay.
  • I want the UI to have Glass-like transparency throughout.
  • Siri/Gemini/Alexa is leagues more reliable than any other assistant I've used, especially with personal context.
  • I rely on on-screen tapbacks for messages while driving.
  • App based ETA/location sharing (not text message based)
• Lack of accessories compared to Teslas. Almost all of the hardware/software features that Tesla doesn't support can be added with aftermarket parts. CarPlay/AA, auto presenting doorhandles, LED lightbar customizations, Sunroof covers, extra physical knobs (thanks in part to the extensibility support offered by the Tesla infotainment software), driver display, etc. Tesla Accessories. To be fair, Rivian does have accessories too, but they're not nearly as powerful as the competition, because of the lack of volume sales, and support by Rivian corporate.
• Lack of a 19" wheel option with the Launch Edition. I want to be able to maximize range, and to do that I need the smallest, lightest possible wheel. I asked about buying a set of 19" wheels, and I was told not to bother doing so by the salesperson.
• The Rivian infotainment software features that will be missing at launch. Never ever buy a product predicated on the promise of future software features. Also, if these basic features from the R1 can't make it to the R2 by launch, it'll take even longer for software features to be released based on customer feedback on the R2.
  • Rivian Assistant
  • Camping Mode
  • Garage Door support
  • Climate Hold
  • Pet Mode
  • Gear Guard will be present but with limited functionality.
• The halo wheels were awful outside of vertical scrolling; I just couldn’t get left and right clicks to trigger. The software integration with them was awful and I found myself not immediately understanding when I could go left/right/forward/backwards in a menu. Pressing into the wheels and pressing behind the wheels felt better than left/right clicks, but I wanted them to feel like the middle click on a mouse, and absolutely didn't feel that in my hands-on.
  • Scrolling with the wheels felt better than excellent. Definitely the best scroll wheel I’ve ever used in any product, ever.
• The lack of 2 pedal driving (forward creep) was unbelievably disappointing.
  • people coming from an ICE car are going to be disappointed by the lack of 2 pedal driving. Parking into a tight garage is also way harder without a coasting feature.
• The sales rep straight up couldn’t answer any intermediate level questions, and just seemed in a rush to get back to his desk in the empty waiting room. Not super confidence-inspiring service. These vehicles that are software defined need a rep dedicated to all the particulars, because if I can't find something in the software with my 20 years of software development, a non-tech person would be just lost.
• Super disappointed that there’s no option to delete the sunroof. I’d much much much prefer to have a metal roof. Here in the southwest, having a sunroof that can't be covered up is a huge loss.
  • besides the obvious heat-issues, getting a crack is a giant pane of glass on the roof is just not something I want to be possible. Here in the southwest, rocks fly at you all the time, and glass coverage isn't free anymore like it used to be with insurance.
• Autonomy+ issues
  • I couldn't get the car to switch lanes autonomously on my test drive (on excellent surface streets; I didn't have time to get on the highway to test it there)
  • I couldn't find an auto park function. I had to park the vehicle manually when I returned to the service center.
• Cruise control/driving dynamics
  • I really liked being able to set a speed in the cruise control with the +1 and +5 increments, but my Prius/Rav4 did a better job of that with the single pull down/push up for incremental speed changes in cruise control speed. The knobs method on the R2 felt worse from a UX perspective.
  • The brake regen felt like I was hard braking even with the lightest and most careful manipulation of the accelerator pedal. I simply couldn't come to a clean, limo-like stop like I can in my Lightning (which has 2 pedal, coasting mode enabled)
• The color choices were just awful. I wanted more bold color choices besides Catalina Cove and Borealis. Ideally, I'd want a watermelon green, but that's just me.
  • since these cars are made to order, there shouldn't be an issue with custom color selection if they're hand painted anyway
  • give me an RGB slider to customize the paint to whatever I want in the configurator (I'd be willing to pay extra for this)

I ended up getting a Model Y Juniper instead. I'm going to put ScreenMate into it for CarPlay/AA. If you're like me and want CarPlay/AA, EVPlay should eventually make a module for the R2; they already have an upgrade kit for the R1 models.

I'm on the same page as you. We cancelled our R2 reservation in favor of Toyota/Subaru. CarPlay was the big factor. Having our R1T for two years now, I can confirm Rivian software sucks.

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[SILVERR1S]

Two things that caught my eye from the OP:

1. Accessories for the R2 as compared to Tesla. How long has the Model Y been available for purchase? It has a few years head start on R2. If R2 does the volume as expected, I'm certain the accessory market will catch up. We'll see.
2. "Never ever buy a product predicated on the promise of future software features." Proceeds to buy a Tesla. Enjoy your Full Self-Driving - when is it supposed to be ready for your Model Y?

 

[Emma]

Too many toxic comments on this site. I'm fine with anyone reporting what they perceive and value. Not everyone will agree. OP posts their experience of the vehicle and things they value in a car. So far, so good. And then others pile on, suggesting OP is dumb, irrational, unreasonable, etc. That's not ok.

I think what people are responding to is that the OP posted this not as a helpful post but as a self-important rant. What was the point if not to feel superior. Think of how many other things the OP could’ve done in the time s/he took to compose that. There are shorter ways to say what you don’t like, especially on a forum where people mostly know what the advantages and disadvantages are of the vehicle.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Manufactures rely on carplay to avoid having to fix their crap.

Or even to make their own crap in the first place... and then struggle to fix many years later, then giving up because as soon as they get somewhere close to a fix, Apple has already released three iteration of CarPlay and the latest doesn't play nice with the OEMs' fix.

This is why more and more are choosing the blank slate approach, as they attempt to get with the times and build their own "software-defined" cars. And each and every one of them will acknowledge growing pains. It's the unreasonable consumers who are refusing to acknowledge the universal fact that "everyone has to start somewhere". And they don't understand why software is difficult, because they're not knowledgeable enough to appreciate the difficulties. There is a whole recent thread on this very thing.

There are those who acknowledge and respect what they do not know. And then there are those who assume what they do not know is easy (because someone else does the work for them or watched a TV show once).

 

[r2fb]

Considering that Rivians are a true SUV with real towing capacity, off road chops, etc. and not a bubble crossover SUV on a car platform like the Y, why would you expect the ride to not be truck like?

This is the exact same comment that was posted countless times when the R1S came out - "Why does it feel and drive like a truck?" Answer: "Because it is."

R2 is a unibody

I'll put it in the OP, but I'm getting a Model Y and putting a ScreenMate in it (it's a whole android tablet computer than man-in-the-middle connects with the car CPU). I just can't justify waiting another 6 months or so for an EVPlay to eventually come out for the R2. I'm glad I test drove the R2, and I'll definitely try them out again in 10 years when I'm buying again, if they're still around. It's not just CarPlay though, I'm also nervous that Autonomy+ will be just glorified cruise control for far too long, and I'll never get a toggle to turn off regen braking. I'll just be better off with the Tesla.

Some of the other complaints still stand as nitpicks, sure, but they're definitely valid, and I stand by everything I said.

You can't turn off regen in Tesla either, there are 2 levels. As a current Model Y owner I could never buy a new one now that they force you to pay a subscription that will cost you 1200 each year for basic adaptive cruise and lane keeping that's standard in a base Toyota. I also hate those they removed the shifter and the signal stalk is worse. Not even getting into the Elon Musk issue, these are my actual problems with Tesla.

 

[harperwc]

physics would not back up the 19" wheel claim. in order to maintain overall circumference you would be decreasing the size of the relatively lightweight aluminum with the heavier rubber and steel tire material. this is why race cars have typically gone to larger and larger wheels over time.

 

[Thebandit]

physics would not back up the 19" wheel claim. in order to maintain overall circumference you would be decreasing the size of the relatively lightweight aluminum with the heavier rubber and steel tire material. this is why race cars have typically gone to larger and larger wheels over time.

You have it exactly backwards. The rubber is much lighter than the aluminum. For a given tire diameter, a smaller wheel will be much lighter.

To help think about it, picture the cylindrical part of the wheel that the open part of the tire seals against. Imagine unrolling it. Do this for a 19" wheel and a 21" wheel. The one for the 21" wheel will be much longer and heavier.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

You have it exactly backwards. The rubber is much lighter than the aluminum. For a given tire diameter, a smaller wheel will be much lighter.

To help think about it, picture the cylindrical part of the wheel that the open part of the tire seals against. Imagine unrolling it. Do this for a 19" wheel and a 21" wheel. The one for the 21" wheel will be much longer and heavier.

Except a tire isn't just 100% rubber. No blanket statement is accurate, unless you are talking about two sizes of a particular brand and model of wheels and tires. Then compare weights of each pairing.

 

[Thebandit]

Except a tire isn't just 100% rubber.

I found a couple of wheels that come in 17 and 19 inch sizes. The 19 inch wheels are 4-6 lbs heavier. For 17 vs 19 inch tires of the same width and diameter, the 17 inch tires are only about a pound lighter. So 19" wheel plus tire is 3-5 lbs heavier than 17" wheel and tire.

Plus, the larger the wheel, the more of the weight is farther away from the center of the axle.

I'm not making this up. This is well known and documented.

 

[Thebandit]

Also, look at Model Y options. For every trim, the larger wheel gives less range. Premium AWD gives 303 miles for 20" and 327 for 19". Regular AWD: 18" gives 294 and 19" gives 283.

Smaller wheels are lighter and have less rotational inertia. This means more range.

 

[AlphaSnowbordergirl]

I get the feeling that this forum has a high propensity of middle aged people who are searching for a religion in Rivian lol. The fact that so many of you don’t want an editorial detailing objective opinions and truths is absolutely wild; ESPECIALLY considering that if the R2 fails to sell to “non-believers” like me, y’all’re gonna be stuck holding the bag like with Fisker. The way some of y’all talk sounds like either a salesperson making commission on their posts, or you’re expecting RJ to love your dedication to the brand and will bless you with a discounted vehicle. It’s frankly embarrassing to read the shill-y responses here.

Dude, my brother read this post cause I showed it to him. Young 20s and still in school. Not getting a Rivian and has little interest in the company. He was raging at your complaints and he has no skin in the game. We agree with a couple points, but a lot of your other complaints undermined them. Like the custom color if hand painted complaint. Rivian has never hand painted their cars. They especially won't do it for a mass market vehicle. I don't know any car in this price range that would be hand painted. That's just unrealistic.

 

[mkhuffman]

physics would not back up the 19" wheel claim. in order to maintain overall circumference you would be decreasing the size of the relatively lightweight aluminum with the heavier rubber and steel tire material. this is why race cars have typically gone to larger and larger wheels over time.

The two biggest factors regarding wheel efficiency are rolling resistance and aerodynamics.

Weight has an impact, but it only impacts acceleration resistance. It has no impact on steady state cruising or when slowing down. Rolling resistance impacts efficiency at all speeds, and aerodynamics at higher speeds (25+).

The biggest rims on the R1 are also the most efficient. And it has nothing to do with weight. Rivian picked rubber with excellent rolling resistance, and designed a rim that is very aerodynamic. They know what they are doing.

Smaller rims and larger sidewall tires could improve aerodynamics because the rubber is smooth compared to the rim surface, so when rotating, the fastest part of the wheel is the smoothest. But all you have to do is design an aerodynamic rim and then the impact is mitigated, like Rivian did with the 22" R1 wheels.

The focus on weight is really misplaced. As much of the OP's opinions are.

 

[Apprunner]

R2 is a unibody

You can't turn off regen in Tesla either, there are 2 levels. As a current Model Y owner I could never buy a new one now that they force you to pay a subscription that will cost you 1200 each year for basic adaptive cruise and lane keeping that's standard in a base Toyota. I also hate those they removed the shifter and the signal stalk is worse. Not even getting into the Elon Musk issue, these are my actual problems with Tesla.

Full self drive is not adaptive cruise control and lane keep. It will literally drive you everywhere and its un-freaking believable. Its so far ahead of everything else on the market, anyone that wants autonomy now has no other options. I can understand people buying a Tesla for the autonomy. Rivian is just not credible right now in this. Don't buy a Rivian hoping for Autonomy as we don't know how they will fare in this. Tesla made giant strides in Autonomy when they were HUGELY profitable and threw unlimited resources at it. Rivan's burning cash left and right and still hasn't reached profitability in any vehicle they sell.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

I found a couple of wheels that come in 17 and 19 inch sizes. The 19 inch wheels are 4-6 lbs heavier. For 17 vs 19 inch tires of the same width and diameter, the 17 inch tires are only about a pound lighter. So 19" wheel plus tire is 3-5 lbs heavier than 17" wheel and tire.

Plus, the larger the wheel, the more of the weight is farther away from the center of the axle.

I'm not making this up. This is well known and documented.

I think you need to realize something: you are having a discussion with someone who - in their mind - has never been wrong lol

 

[renderpaz]

13 pages means this has probably already been said but....

The OP was never going to buy an R2

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