Does the R2 actually kill Rivian?

[COdogman]

I am not sure I want to go back to SUVs, but I will also be considering trading in my R1T for an R2. By the time the R2 is starting deliveries I will have a few years in my T and I'm not confident in my ability to afford post-warranty repairs on it even though it's been damn near perfect so far.

I might not go through with it in the end, but a $100 deposit is worth it to get a place in line while I decide.

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[Dark-Fx]

You'll potentially trade Launch R1 for R2? State taxes make it painful to keep buying/selling expensive but depreciating toys.

No, the R1 that Rivian has said basically nothing about yet. Where the pedal goes through the floor

 

[Chris TX]

As a "legacy" Model S owner (pre-Model X,3,Y) there didn't seem to be many people that chose to not get a Model S/X to get a Model 3/Y. I did see some people trade in their Model S to get a Model Y, but the demographics are usually different enough to where there isn't much cannibalization.

If there is an R2T, I'd probably get that to add to our R1S. I'm curious to see if they have a Performance version.

 

[FootyMax]

We're looking at the R2, not as a replacement for my R1T, but to instead replace our Bolt.

 

[sacramentoelectric]

Nah, FUDsters like you can't kill Rivian either. Rivian's numbers don't look great today but that's ignoring their upcoming cost reductions through the retools happening this year. Rivian is dropping the Bosch quad for in house motors with more power and significantly better margins.

People like me are going to trade in Launch R1 vehicles for another sale. Since Rivian contracts out trade-in resale, they don't really need to worry about the used inventory.

You're speculating on dropping the Bosch motors, right? Has Rivian announced the change? Considering the packaging challenges of fitting two more of the much larger Enduro motors and the low sales volume of the resulting $95k+ MSRP model, I wonder if it makes much sense to spend the limited R+D resources on such a niche vehicle. I'd personally love a higher power Enduro quad R1T and would be interested in upgrading in a few years but I can't imagine it would be a priority for Rivian compared to R2 development.

 

[Dark-Fx]

You're speculating on dropping the Bosch motors, right? Has Rivian announced the change? Considering the packaging challenges of fitting two more of the much larger Enduro motors and the low sales volume of the resulting $95k+ MSRP model, I wonder if it makes much sense to spend the limited R+D resources on such a niche vehicle. I'd personally love a higher power Enduro quad R1T and would be interested in upgrading in a few years but I can't imagine it would be a priority for Rivian compared to R2 development.

There's information out there from what I'd consider "reliable enough" sources about it being in process. Rivian doesn't have a need to share the information yet but I expect we're going to hear about it sometime in the next couple months. I'd be surprised if it was part of the R2 reveal, but it could be a good time to do it while the hype is there and they have the spotlight.

Those rumors about "the ascent trim" were close, Ascent is the project name of the motors like Enduro was for the dual. Pretty much the extent of the information available.

 

[sacramentoelectric]

There's information out there from what I'd consider "reliable enough" sources about it being in process. Rivian doesn't have a need to share the information yet but I expect we're going to hear about it sometime in the next couple months. I'd be surprised if it was part of the R2 reveal, but it could be a good time to do it while the hype is there and they have the spotlight.

Those rumors about "the ascent trim" were close, Ascent is the project name of the motors like Enduro was for the dual. Pretty much the extent of the information available.

That's great to hear. I'm almost embarrassed to say that I find myself wishing my R1T had a better power to weight ratio. It's not slow but I'd love it to get a little closer to Plaid X performance. Since it's not going to get any lighter, MORE POWER!

 

[Twitter Fingers]

Seems to me that making LESS of the R1 vehicles that they are losing $40k on would actually extend Rivian's cash out a little bit.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Seems to me that making LESS of the R1 vehicles that they are losing $40k on would actually extend Rivian's cash out a little bit.

Selling zero vehicles would make it last the longest right?

 

[Twitter Fingers]

Selling zero vehicles would make it last the longest right?

Until they achieve positive gross margins... yes lol

 

[VSG]

You're speculating on dropping the Bosch motors, right? Has Rivian announced the change? Considering the packaging challenges of fitting two more of the much larger Enduro motors and the low sales volume of the resulting $95k+ MSRP model, I wonder if it makes much sense to spend the limited R+D resources on such a niche vehicle. I'd personally love a higher power Enduro quad R1T and would be interested in upgrading in a few years but I can't imagine it would be a priority for Rivian compared to R2 development

There's information out there from what I'd consider "reliable enough" sources about it being in process. Rivian doesn't have a need to share the information yet but I expect we're going to hear about it sometime in the next couple months. I'd be surprised if it was part of the R2 reveal, but it could be a good time to do it while the hype is there and they have the spotlight.

Those rumors about "the ascent trim" were close, Ascent is the project name of the motors like Enduro was for the dual. Pretty much the extent of the information available.

It has always been the plan to move motor production in-house. The Bosch motors were (IMO) a risk-reduction move early on , because Rivian was already taking on huge challenges in building a car company from scratch. Going with the Bosch motors initially took a key component off their plate and made it so they could ship earlier with a proven motor.

They have been bootstrapping everything. The Enduro motor was designed to be dual use in both the EDV and the R1. The next logical step is to build a smaller Enduro to replace the Bosch motors to use on a new Quad R1 configuration AND as a Dual motor in the R2. I hope this new motor will be confirmed at the release. I don't see how they can put that same current Enduro motor assembly into a smaller R2 and make it cost effective.

 

[ironpig]

Spoiler alert: no

Exactly.

What we have here is a surplus of "speculation fuel".

 

[CharonPDX]

It’s a valid question, but I think it’s pretty simple actually: If the R2 is popular Rivian will have no problem raising money to get it built.

Tesla models 3, Y coming into existence did not kill Tesla. They still sold the S, X even though numbers were less, but that has been the plan all along for Rivian. Most manufacturers start with their “halo” model(s) and then offer more affordable options later.

This.

Tesla was teetering on bankruptcy for the couple years before the Model 3 came out. But it skyrocketed once they started shipping Model 3s. They similarly had huge demand when it was announced - not taking away from Model S sales in any significant amount.

 

[OldGoat]

It's so hard to figure. From a practical standpoint I just don't see a lot of cannibalism taking place. A truck is a truck. I got a truck because I need a truck bed. I can't imagine anyone, myself included, getting a truck if they didn't need a truck. And yet there are huge numbers of F150 and Sierra and Tacoma and.... owners that have never used the bed.

My wife has a Grand Cherokee, prior to that a Audi etron sportback and prior to that a Macan. She would never consider an R1S...too big. Yet, I see people that are driving behemouth Escalades and Navigators that have one kid, never haul anything or use a trailer.

Even on this forum, I am continuously surprised at the number of people that cross shop vehicles that have zero in common....hmm R1T or Taycan? R1S or mini Cooper countryman? (do they still make these).

So, I've come to the conclusion that I don't have a clue. (Seems like the older I get the more things I realize I don't have a clue about....cars, stocks, kids, etc.)

 

[Chewy734]

Let me ask my magic 8 ball…

“You are asking the wrong question”…. What?!?

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