Experience shopping for an EV9 vs R1S - Update

[carsly]

Kia is still planning on bringing a higher performance EV9 GT to market last I knew. (Whoever at Kia is responsible for the trim names needs to get fired. GT vs GT-Line is practically impossible to search for). Performance is likely comparable to the dual motor performance and not the quad motor R1. Range is likely to be significantly worse.

They probably previously worked at BMW launching the M-sport lineups, different from the actual M vehicles.

...or maybe Mercedes with the AMG-line vs. actual AMG's.

It's just branding bananas out there.

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[manitou202]

Appreciate the detailed info. But it really seems like you went out of the way to make the R1S scenario worst-case. If you pick a config under $80k and Rivian's trade-in offer is even close to competitive then the difference in price becomes much smaller.

This is possible, but I won't know until I put down a $1000 deposit and commit an order first.

Rivian really needs to simply the trade-in process, particularly the process for getting the trade-in estimate.

 

[manitou202]

Honestly I expected buying the R1S over the EV9 was going to be a slam dunk, and a really easy decision. But like I highlighted above, the lack of transparency with the trade-in process, and the sales tax credit has made the value proposition more much difficult.

I want Rivian to be successful, so I'm trying to help point out a problem with their current buying experience and why some customers might be turned off.

 

[shrink]

Since you have an R1T already, reach out to your Guide. Maybe they can facilitate and get you a trade in value without having to put down a nonrefundable $1000 order?

You're absolutely right in that getting a trade-in value does not have to be this difficult.

 

[fbitz777]

I think you can get the 7500$ credit on lease of R1S
Why are you assuming that the sale of your trade-in is considered a 3rd party trade in case of R1S (i.e. sales tax is on the full amount)?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

As a new Rivian customer (well, returning--had a reservation a couple of years ago, but went with the Mustang Mach-E instead), I have to agree.

The purchasing process isn't well-organized and which steps are supposed to happen in which order is not only poorly-communicated, it's poorly arranged with the $1,000 commitment happening too early in the process.

A few months ago I tried to compare a Shop option to a custom configuration and they wanted me to send them $1,000 before I could even do the configuration. That's a terrible time to demand $1,000, even if it is refundable. I think that was fixed but, since I found basically what I wanted in the shop, I'm not certain.

Then I had to commit $1,000 non-refundable before knowing how they would value my Tacoma. That's fine for me because we're selling 3rd party and leasing the R1T. But I agree that they should have as an early step a "value your trade-in" like everyone else does.

Now I don't know if the process is waiting on me or if it's waiting on them to move forward. It hasn't even been a full business day, so that's all fine, but from a UX perspective and since it's all electronic so far, it seems like they could have a numbered checklist of what happens when and who is responsible for metaphorically pushing the [Next] button in the process.

 

[manitou202]

I think you can get the 7500$ credit on lease of R1S
Why are you assuming that the sale of your trade-in is considered a 3rd party trade in case of R1S (i.e. sales tax is on the full amount)?

I can get the $7500 credit on the lease of the R1S or the EV9. If I lease, then I don't get the sales tax credit, because on a lease you pay sales tax on each lease payment, not the full price of the vehicle. So if my long term goal is to buy the car, I would then have to pay sales tax on the lease buyout price, which basically kills the $7500 credit. Regardless, leasing doesn't improve the situation versus the EV9 because I get the same credits.

At this point I have no idea what Rivian will offer in terms of a trade-in value if I purchase the R1S. The third party trade-ins (using Carvana and a few other online sites) have been between $66k - $72k. So without knowing what Rivian will offer, I have to assume the worst case for the moment.

 

[manitou202]

Since you have an R1T already, reach out to your Guide. Maybe they can facilitate and get you a trade in value without having to put down a nonrefundable $1000 order?

You're absolutely right in that getting a trade-in value does not have to be this difficult.

I texted my guide. We will see what they say.

 

[NC-Rivian]

For a lot of us, leasing an S isn’t an option for Rivian (NC, SC, VA, etc) but it is for the 9. I need a 7-pass vehicle and it’s either an S or a 9 (and NOT an X!) and I’m probably going to lease this vehicle for 24 months. The lease thing is driving me to the EV9 for now.

 

[R.I.P.]

Buy American.

 

[usulio]

The rub is Rivian's prices run higher, much higher, than the EV9 so he's comparing a max spec EV9 to a lower mid-spec R1S with a regular dual-motor and Standard+ battery - far from a like-to-like max spec to max spec comparison which would be quite unfavorable for the R1S.

Just noting that max-spec to max-spec is not like to like at all. A better comparison is a fully loaded EV9 to a bare-bones base R1S. It's still not a fair comparison because the bare-bones R1S is much better in every metric, but at least the prices are about the same.

 

[TollKeeper]

They probably previously worked at BMW launching the M-sport lineups, different from the actual M vehicles.

...or maybe Mercedes with the AMG-line vs. actual AMG's.

It's just branding bananas out there.

Dont forget abou the AMG Black! Yea its confusing.

And isnt there a AMG Black SkunkWorks?

 

[manitou202]

Just noting that max-spec to max-spec is not like to like at all. A better comparison is a fully loaded EV9 to a bare-bones base R1S. It's still not a fair comparison because the bare-bones R1S is much better in every metric, but at least the prices are about the same.

My point in posting this thread, wasn't to compare the EV9 versus R1S. It's about the buying experience. The R1S has the EV9 beat in many aspects, but not everything. The EV9 is much nicer than both my wife and I anticipated.

Regardless, many people will be cross shopping vehicles against the R1S, whether it's an EV9, Model X, Toyota Land Cruiser, Land Rover Defender, etc. Rivian is making the process more difficult. The buying direct from the manufacturer isn't always the better experience.

 

[DuoRivians]

Not going through dealers is worth $5-10K for me. F’ing hate them, and fundamentally, they add no value and paying “mafia” fees essentially

 

[TollKeeper]

The R1S has the EV9 beat in many aspects, but not everything.

Agree completely. The GT-Line I had speced and previewed at one of the local dealers.. Just wow. Great build, great look, great comfort, Android Auto, better heated and cooled seats, HUD, controls that make a bit more sense...

But there are some draw backs. For me, the biggest ding was the power. It was quick, but not Rivian quick... More like 90's Corvette. The frunk... I honestly dont know how they can call it that. It can hold two 12 packs of soda.. And thats abou it.

Having owned the R1S now for 1.5 months, and still have not used the frunk, I am not sure thats a big deal to me. But the 835/908 was, and still is. Maybe I will grow out of it...... NAW!!!

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