Front windshield low quality (cracks easily)

[Noah Arc]

I dont think this is a glass quality issue, but rather an EV /airflow issue. The R1 is a slippery (aerodynamically speaking) vehicle for what it is, and EV's in general focus on Aero to increase range/decrease energy consumption.

My belief is that in focusing on this, the vehicle has a more uniform air sheet flowing over it compared to a typical vehicle, this carries things like rocks on the air cushion further up the vehicle but when it comes to the window there is a sudden steep change in air direction/flow and the mass of the objects now drives through the air cushion right into the window. I.e. aerodynamics makes air flow better over the hood of the vehicle, this carries debris into the windshield (unintended consequence of aerodynamics) at a higher rate then less aerodynamic vehicles. I believe this is why we see more broken windows on EV's in general compared to ICE vehicles.

I think that you are partially right about the air flow and the windshield angle and yet, the glass is noticeably much thinner than other cars windshields.
In addition, Rivian makes it very difficult for other 3rd party installers like safelight to be able to reprogram cameras etc. effectively cornering the market so they can make an extra buck.
In comparison Rivian windshield $2,600 with a 4 month wait, other full size trucks $400 to $600 available today.

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[Dmartin]

I think that you are partially right about the air flow and the windshield angle and yet, the glass is noticeably much thinner than other cars windshields.
In addition, Rivian makes it very difficult for other 3rd party installers like safelight to be able to reprogram cameras etc. effectively cornering the market so they can make an extra buck.
In comparison Rivian windshield $2,600 with a 4 month wait, other full size trucks $400 to $600 available today.

My wife's Mach-e was $1700, my work model 3 was $1200, my brothers Raptor was $1800, my parents Outback was $1800. Rivian seems high with your quote, but not obscenely.

 

[White Shadow]

I regularly switch between the Jeep and the Rivian. So far no glass issues with the Rivian. Same paths and time, the Jeep has had 3 cracks from pebbles. All have been fixed at home with a repair kit.

What kind of Jeep? Just curious because my Grand Cherokee's windshield has been hit so many times on the highway where I expected a chip or a crack and shit just bounces off without any damage. It's actually kind of shocking. But something like a Jeep Wrangler, with a more vertical windshield would be more susceptible to damage, I'd imagine.

 

[nancy94024]

So move further back, sometimes you actually have to be present in the situation, the cruise control isn’t set up to prevent rock chips

you can't prevent people jumping in front of you

 

[Riviaenz]

I think that you are partially right about the air flow and the windshield angle and yet, the glass is noticeably much thinner than other cars windshields.
In addition, Rivian makes it very difficult for other 3rd party installers like safelight to be able to reprogram cameras etc. effectively cornering the market so they can make an extra buck.
In comparison Rivian windshield $2,600 with a 4 month wait, other full size trucks $400 to $600 available today.

How thick is the Rivian windshield? On our 2005 Boxster it’s <1mm per pane which was surprising to see how thin it is (saw it during assembly - factory tour). Most glass now is actually as thin as that, all part of weight savings and modern safety glass can withstand significant impact in spite of how thin it is. Also all front windshields must be AS1 rated which means they pass a series of safety tests. All other glass on a car can be AS2 or higher (lower standard).

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...or-vehicle-safety-standards-glazing-materials

With all that said, the reality is that the experience of getting a rock impact and whether or not it leaves a chip, or worse, is subject to many variable and not all rock impacts are the same. How jagged was the surface of the rock, was it smooth, a pebble, what was it’s trajectory (head on glancing blow, etc), how fast, how dense (kinetic energy), temperature at time of impact, even where the impact on the plane occurred, etc.

Plus the most fascinating part of a glass is how often has it been subjected to an impact and not been affected before THE impact that results in a chip or an immediate crack forming? Anyone experience dropping their smartphone countless times without it shattering and then suddenly a light impact and its glass explodes? Tempered glass is under constant tension, part of what gives them that resilience. Having worked on devices with progressive generations of Gorilla Glass in addition to some custom formulations and treatments depending on application, it ultimately comes down to when will its tension be released.

As for a “class action”… you’d first have to demonstrate that Rivian‘s AS1 windshield is substandard. As in it fails/does not meet the AS1 federal standard it must pass to be used as a windshield and as such has that rating on the DOT bug (label on the lower right hand corner of the windshield).

 

[Riviaenz]

It actually flew from the opposite side of the freeway. We where going 30 mil/Hr. in LA traffic

About 2 weeks ago I was traveling on a 2 lane mountain highway at about 60mph when an oncoming truck coming around a corner flung a rock that impacted and chipped our windshield in front of the passenger line of sight on our R1T. The impact chip was about the size of a penny. I promptly had it sealed 2 days later and it’s invisible from the driver’s vantage point and only 2 hairlines remain visible from the passenger‘s view.

Issue is it all depends on rock (shape, size, weight), as much as speed, and location of impact that might propagate the impact force resulting in visible damage. Even if there is no visible damage the glass may be primed for a future failure without you being aware.

 

[Noah Arc]

How thick is the Rivian windshield? On our 2005 Boxster it’s <1mm per pane which was surprising to see how thin it is (saw it during assembly - factory tour). Most glass now is actually as thin as that, all part of weight savings and modern safety glass can withstand significant impact in spite of how thin it is. Also all front windshields must be AS1 rated which means they pass a series of safety tests. All other glass on a car can be AS2 or higher (lower standard).

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...or-vehicle-safety-standards-glazing-materials

With all that said, the reality is that the experience of getting a rock impact and whether or not it leaves a chip, or worse, is subject to many variable and not all rock impacts are the same. How jagged was the surface of the rock, was it smooth, a pebble, what was it’s trajectory (head on glancing blow, etc), how fast, how dense (kinetic energy), temperature at time of impact, even where the impact on the plane occurred, etc.

Plus the most fascinating part of a glass is how often has it been subjected to an impact and not been affected before THE impact that results in a chip or an immediate crack forming? Anyone experience dropping their smartphone countless times without it shattering and then suddenly a light impact and its glass explodes? Tempered glass is under constant tension, part of what gives them that resilience. Having worked on devices with progressive generations of Gorilla Glass in addition to some custom formulations and treatments depending on application, it ultimately comes down to when will its tension be released.

As for a “class action”… you’d first have to demonstrate that Rivian‘s AS1 windshield is substandard. As in it fails/does not meet the AS1 federal standard it must pass to be used as a windshield and as such has that rating on the DOT bug (label on the lower right hand corner of the windshield).

Bottom line is cost and reliability. Insurance companies are already raising cost on Rivian vehicles, owners like myself thinking about alternative vehicles and potential buyers are sway away...
For a company that struggle to stay afloat, its another nail in its coffin. hopefully someone at the upper management will make the right decision to redesign the windshield. I'm not holding my breath for this

 

[Riviaenz]

Bottom line is cost and reliability. Insurance companies are already raising cost on Rivian vehicles, owners like myself thinking about alternative vehicles and potential buyers are sway away...
For a company that struggle to stay afloat, its another nail in its coffin. hopefully someone at the upper management will make the right decision to redesign the windshield. I'm not holding my breath for this

About cost… I get your perspective is skewed coming from a Jeep Wrangler and it’s super inexpensive flat piece of tempered glass. For context most premium cars’ windshields are on the order of $1600-2200 and not only varies on make but features included. Having experience from being on Volvo and Porsche forums it’s not uncommon to read of similar concerns as yours regarding poor glass and high cost.

I do share your concern regarding high cost of body repair, however, that’s a function of design and not material quality. R1T are designed much like an SUV or wagon and not like a traditional pickup truck so it will incur higher costs to repair than say when the bed of an F-150 is damaged in a collision. There’s more body/panel work involved. And of course related to that at least on the R1T is it involves replacing the rear glass when the rear side panels need to be replaced. A function of tradeoffs in design. It’s also a function of experience. As more certified shops gain experience, there’s already evidence of repair costs coming down. In the early days rear damage often resulted in $40k+ repair quotes or outright total losses. Now many of those similar types of quotes have been coming down. It’s also a function of Rivian gaining insight in how repairs can be performed while retaining the vehicle’s original high safety rating.

Still I do worry about the seeming high relative collision repair costs. How we ended up with a Rivian is the result of that same issue. Our Volvo XC90 T8 was impacted in the rear causing damage to the lift gate and rear floor. The repair estimate was $18k. When I took it in and the shop started peeling stuff off, they revised it to $22k. At that point our insurance declared it a loss which shocked me. In the end they paid more than 2x that to replace the whole vehicle. It was disappointing they were readily willing to replace vs. repair and willing to pay out significantly more than repair. I suspect with PHEV/EV the salvage values are higher than they’re claiming which makes the math look so skewed like in our example.

 

[Riptide]

I dont think this is a glass quality issue, but rather an EV /airflow issue. The R1 is a slippery (aerodynamically speaking) vehicle for what it is, and EV's in general focus on Aero to increase range/decrease energy consumption.

My belief is that in focusing on this, the vehicle has a more uniform air sheet flowing over it compared to a typical vehicle, this carries things like rocks on the air cushion further up the vehicle but when it comes to the window there is a sudden steep change in air direction/flow and the mass of the objects now drives through the air cushion right into the window. I.e. aerodynamics makes air flow better over the hood of the vehicle, this carries debris into the windshield (unintended consequence of aerodynamics) at a higher rate then less aerodynamic vehicles. I believe this is why we see more broken windows on EV's in general compared to ICE vehicles.

You may have WAY over thought this. HAHA, either way it’s a poor design that results in a greater number of cracked and replaced windshields than average.

 

[Magicbus]

I also have a Bronco Sport. The people on that forum think they have the worst windshield too. Rocks and cracks happen.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I dont think this is a glass quality issue, but rather an EV /airflow issue. The R1 is a slippery (aerodynamically speaking) vehicle for what it is, and EV's in general focus on Aero to increase range/decrease energy consumption.

My belief is that in focusing on this, the vehicle has a more uniform air sheet flowing over it compared to a typical vehicle, this carries things like rocks on the air cushion further up the vehicle but when it comes to the window there is a sudden steep change in air direction/flow and the mass of the objects now drives through the air cushion right into the window. I.e. aerodynamics makes air flow better over the hood of the vehicle, this carries debris into the windshield (unintended consequence of aerodynamics) at a higher rate then less aerodynamic vehicles. I believe this is why we see more broken windows on EV's in general compared to ICE vehicles.

While I agree with you, but also can't rule out quality control. The supplier is Fuyao. Look at the etched logo at the passenger side bottom corner. Quality control and labor struggles at the Ohio plant is not a secret. Rivian, being a start-up and having much smaller production volume than others, didn't have the leverage needed to work with a more established/reputable supplier, like PPG. That is probably why they chose Fuyao. The high replacement cost is also tied to volume (lack of economy of scale).

.

 

[Riviaenz]

I also have a Bronco Sport. The people on that forum think they have the worst windshield too. Rocks and cracks happen.

Right! Visit Volvo and Porsche forums and you’ll see the same thing there. It’s interesting there’s a sense that a windshield shouldn’t shatter when struck at highway speeds based on prior experiences of never having had a damaged windshield either due to not having been previously hit by a rock or object or the one experience with an object hitting an windshield on a prior car and comparing that to a different object hitting and chipping their new car; suddenly the new car has weak glass, without having enough information to ascertain differences that may have contributed to no damage on one and damage to another (object mass, shape, material, speed, weight and kinetic energy absorbed vs. deflected by glass and countless other factors).

Heck Elon even took advantage of that perception. Recall how a large steel ball bearing pitched at their prototype ApocalypTruck’s side glass shattered it and then at the launch a lightly tossed baseball at it didn’t shatter it! Suddenly the “new” glass on the production version is super hard shatter-proof/invincible!

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Right! Visit Volvo and Porsche forums and you’ll see the same thing there. It’s interesting there’s a sense that a windshield shouldn’t shatter when struck at highway speeds based on prior experiences not having been hit a rock or object. Or that one experience with an object hitting one windshield on a car and then a different object hitting their new car and it chipping suddenly the new car has weak glass, without having enough information to ascertain differences that may have contributed to no damage on one and damage to another (object mass, shape, material, speed, weight and kinetic energy absorbed vs. deflected by glass and countless other factors).

Heck Elon even took advantage of that perception. Recall how a large steel ball bearing pitched at their prototype ApocalypTruck’s side glass shattered it and then at the launch a lightly tossed baseball at it didn’t shatter it! Suddenly the “new” glass on the production version is super hard shatter proof/invincible!

Right. Anecdotal evidence. Without scientific and independent testing can’t proclaim glass to be either way.

 

[foxerson]

I've got 56k miles on my original windshield, no chips or cracks at all.

Now you’re just temping fate.

 

[iansriv]

What kind of Jeep? Just curious because my Grand Cherokee's windshield has been hit so many times on the highway where I expected a chip or a crack and shit just bounces off without any damage. It's actually kind of shocking. But something like a Jeep Wrangler, with a more vertical windshield would be more susceptible to damage, I'd imagine.

You would think with all the tech advances someone would figure out how to protect the glass. I heard a lot about Gorilla Glass. As it's not an option for us, I'm looking at exterior protective film.

Gorilla Glass

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