Heatpump is the biggest upgrade in Gen 2, imo

[SoCal Rob]

Here's the real deal: While heat pumps and traditional air conditioners operate on similar principles for cooling, heat pumps offer significant advantages. They're typically optimized with more efficient compressors and advanced refrigerant management.

This sounds like quoted material but without a source. Who’s written that? Specifically, what are the “significant advantages” for cooling? A more efficient compressor in a heat pump will yield the same improvements in an AC system. What is meant by “advanced refrigerant management” as it relates to closed loop systems like traditional cooling-only AC and heat pumps?

Heat pumps also integrate with a vehicle's thermal systems, using waste heat from the battery and drivetrain to enhance overall efficiency—something traditional AC systems can't do. This leads to better energy use and extended range in EVs.

This applies to heating the vehicle cabin and not cooling it.

Plus, the refreshed Rivian R1S includes both a heat pump and an AC compressor, ensuring it can handle heating and cooling efficiently.

I find it hard to believe that a vehicle would include a compressor for a heat pump (heat+cool) system and a compressor for an air conditioner (cooling only) system. Where did you find it stated that the refreshed R1s have both a heat pump system (which needs a refrigerant compressor) and an additional refrigerant compressor for AC cooling only?

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[sirna7]

This sounds like quoted material but without a source. Who’s written that? Specifically, what are the “significant advantages” for cooling? A more efficient compressor in a heat pump will yield the same improvements in an AC system. What is meant by “advanced refrigerant management” as it relates to closed loop systems like traditional cooling-only AC and heat pumps?


This applies to heating the vehicle cabin and not cooling it.


I find it hard to believe that a vehicle would include a compressor for a heat pump (heat+cool) system and a compressor for an air conditioner (cooling only) system. Where did you find it stated that the refreshed R1s have both a heat pump system (which needs a refrigerant compressor) and an additional refrigerant compressor for AC cooling only?

Sorry, not worth my time. Based on your prior comments and accusations, why don't you directly ask AI these questions and save me time?

 

[Dark-Fx]

Sorry, not worth my time. Based on your prior comments and accusations, why don't you directly ask AI these questions and save me time?

Says a guy whose profile picture is an AI generated image of a Rivian badge that has an explicitly non-rivian vehicle depicted.

 

[SoCal Rob]

Sorry, not worth my time. Based on your prior comments and accusations, why don't you directly ask AI these questions and save me time?

Uh, I think you’re confusing me with someone elese.

These are my posts and I haven’t made any comments about anything other than the actual topic nor have I made a single accusation:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...iggest-upgrade-in-gen-2-imo.28927/post-555324

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...iggest-upgrade-in-gen-2-imo.28927/post-555327

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...iggest-upgrade-in-gen-2-imo.28927/post-555330

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...iggest-upgrade-in-gen-2-imo.28927/post-555419

 

[Dark-Fx]

Uh, I think you’re confusing me with someone elese.

These are my posts and I haven’t made any comments about anything other than the actual topic nor have I made a single accusation:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...iggest-upgrade-in-gen-2-imo.28927/post-555324

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...iggest-upgrade-in-gen-2-imo.28927/post-555327

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...iggest-upgrade-in-gen-2-imo.28927/post-555330

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...iggest-upgrade-in-gen-2-imo.28927/post-555419

Bots have trouble telling humans apart.

 

[SparkyR1t]

Air conditioners also transfer heat from inside to outside by the exact same process as a heat pump. If an air conditioner did not transfer heat from the cabin to the outside then what do you understand to be cooling the cabin?

Regarding efficiency, if both systems use the same compressor, refrigerant, insulation, and heat exchangers (a.k.a. radiators or coils) then my understanding is any difference in cooling efficiency is too small to make a difference either way. So if a heat pump is trying to cool the inside by pumping heat to the outside there is no significant efficiency gain compared to an AC system doing the same thing with the same components.

so a heat pump has similar components to a standard AC system that being a compressor, an evaporator coil, a condenser coil, and refrigerant. They all require battery power from the EV to operate. The difference between just an AC unit and a heat pump is a heat pump has a refrigerant reversing valve. ( Tesla actually had a very sophisticated octo valve that had 8 possible positions). The reversing valve can reverse the AC process that normally takes warm air from the cabin , battery or motors and releases it elsewhere usually outside and now takes that heat from the cabin, outside, from battery and move it to where it is needed the most. Remember the entire system needs electricity to operate. It is mainly super efficient as it uses less eneray than the PTC heater we currently have in Rivian EV’s. But also remember in below freezing temperatures it is slow to heat the cabin as finding a heat source can be a bit challenging. So to sum it up an AC only system cools the interior of a vehicle moving heat out, while a heat pump can also bring heat into the cabin r battery or to the motors wherever it is needed

 

[R1Tom]

Bots have trouble telling humans apart.

This is definitely a bot or a human just putting everything into ChatGPT. These responses are amazingly simplistic and actually full of errors....

 

[sirna7]

Like I said, waste of time

When you can't match someone's argument, the go-to move seems to be blaming AI — a classic playground defense tactic.

Keep going; ignorance is indeed bliss! ?

 

[Dark-Fx]

This is definitely a bot or a human just putting everything into ChatGPT. These responses are amazingly simplistic and actually full of errors....

I do love the confidence in ChatGPT's hallucinated answers.

 

[R1Tom]

I do love the confidence in ChatGPT's hallucinated answers.

I agree....I use it some now in career but it often does exactly what it is doing here and makes outlandish generalization type answers. Since I know the topic well...I can sniff it out. It is a bit scary however that many people are starting to take its generative answers as accurate without fact checks or adequate knowledge.

 

[sirna7]

In 3-6 months, when more data is available to end-users like yourself, you'll realize how foolish you sound right now... just like all those trying to predict the refreshed model as downgrades. That is all.

 

[beyondgravity]

A heat pump isn’t gonna do anything for you on hot days…

Also owning a Scandinavian Belgian built EV with a heat pump (C40) it’s not the range panacea everyone claims them to be in moderate cold. Yeah, they are more efficient than an electric resistance heater, but not a magic silver bullet to alleviate winter range reduction

*yes yes, it’ll still cool the car but it’s not magically more efficient than AC at cooling.

Is there a efficiency based on temp ranges for car heat pump. We had moved to heat pump to our house and ended up adding gas furnace; as the company said that I needed it even for moderate NJ weather in the winter.

 

[zefram47]

Is there a efficiency based on temp ranges for car heat pump. We had moved to heat pump to our house and ended up adding gas furnace; as the company said that I needed it even for moderate NJ weather in the winter.

Lots of factors in heat pump efficiency from the actual refrigerant used to the efficiency of the compressor to the size of the heat exchanger, etc. That said, the colder it is outside, the lower the relative efficiency of the heat pump when trying to move heat into the cabin/home simply because there is less heat/energy outside to move. But even in very cold conditions the COP or coefficient of performance should still exceed 1.0 by a fair margin where 1.0 would be equivalent of a resistive heating element like our Gen1 vehicles have.

Technology Connections on YouTube is a great resource for all kinds of info on heat pumps. Here's a playlist of his with 4 different videos.



Matt Farrell also has some good videos on heat pumps, including this one on newer tech (mainly new refrigerants) for "extreme" cold.

 

[portdirect]

This thread is just painful to read: An AC system is a heat-pump, a heat-pump is also a heat-pump, a refrigerator is also a heat-pump. Marketing has simply got us to the place where when people refer to things as 'heat-pumps' they typically mean a reversible variable speed heat-pump. When cooling there is no difference between an AC unit and a Heat-pump in operation as they are the same thing. Its perfectly possible for one implementation to be more efficient than the other, but this has nothing to so with it being a `heat-pump` or 'AC' system - for any given price point its actually easier to make an 'AC' system have a greater COP (coefficient of performance) than a reversible heat-pump, due to being able to optimize for one scenario.


As people seem interested in credentials in this thread: Taught thermodynamics at a university for 4 years, and have designed and specified multiple heat-pump systems (air and ground source) for residential and commercial applications.

 

[RealBillNye]

There are a lot of misconceptions floating around here about heat pumps. An AC is a form of heat pump. The consumer definition for a heat pump is a reversible heat pump that can move heat in both directions. Both perform roughly the same at cooling.

Depending on how it is designed it can also be set up to share heat between other components (cabin, radiators, battery and motors). This last distinction is completely up to to the engineers (or rather finance) and is not a package deal when you see that an EV added a heat pump.

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