Interesting Washington Post article on EA Reliability

[HaveBlue]

RAN stations are very much in transportation corridors so I think that helps. Small towns like Quartzite or Bishop aren't going to have a lot of Rivians camping the spaces. They are people who want to charge and go. Put an EA station in a Walmart though and the whole world goes shopping for three hours whether it's free or not.

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[evhelphub]

Just like that, VW Group finally breaks down and signs up for NACS, starting in 2025.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/19/24008426/volkswagen-audi-porsche-tesla-nacs-ev-charging-plug

Thank goodness, although, waiting another whole year is going to be painful with my ID4.

Curious to see how their subsidiary responds.

 

[emoore]

Just like that, VW Group finally breaks down and signs up for NACS, starting in 2025.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/19/24008426/volkswagen-audi-porsche-tesla-nacs-ev-charging-plug

Thank goodness, although, waiting another whole year is going to be painful.

Why does it matter that VW is switching? Won’t have any impact for Rivian except maybe having to use the NACS adapter at EA stations. Isn’t going to make EA any more reliable.

 

[evhelphub]

Why does it matter that VW is switching? Won’t have any impact for Rivian except maybe having to use the NACS adapter at EA stations. Isn’t going to make EA any more reliable.

I own a VW ID4, which I meant to include in the post. Going to be painful for that ownership experience.

Not sure what EA does. Maybe reliability improves with the switch, they are a bit different.

 

[Supratachophobia]

Do you think releasing the Tesla chargers to Ford and GM will take enough pressure off the EA system to allow them to catch up on their maintenance backlog?

We're getting a VW ID.4 tonight (My R1T is being pushed back till we digest having a first EV.) I've been reading in a VW forum about lines at EA sites.

Wrong question. Does EA need to do anything?

 

[azbill]

It sounds like CA regulators are leaning hard on EA to improve maintenance of sites, while the EPA is staying out of it as much as possible. I also appreciated the background on how we got here.

I just got my R1S in August (my first EV), and I've had almost as many problems at EVGo sites as EA sites - so it's not just an EA problem.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/12/13/electrify-america-ev-charger-broken/

I am curious about your bad EVGO experiences, were any of those with the new Delta chargers? They have some new 100kw ones and some 350kw dual port power shared ones. For me, those new ones have been rock solid and never limit power. this is the new 350kw ones, those are also the ones being installed at Pilot/Flying J.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Once Tesla opens up if 7% of the EA complaints are cable length Tesla will be in trouble.

“In the Berkeley study, researchers found that 7 percent of Electrify America’s stations didn’t have a cord long enough to reach the vehicle they were trying to charge.”

This 739 out of 1000 score for Tesla adds plenty of fuel to any discussion about how negatively slanted things are on internet surveys. If Tesla is under 750 I really have no idea what people’s real expectation is.

“In a recent J.D. Power study, the company ranked last in consumer satisfaction among fast-charging networks, scoring a 538 on a 1,000-point scale. (In comparison, Tesla’s network scored a 739.) The satisfaction survey is limited to users of the PlugShare app”

Yes and no with the cord length. Some EA chargers are installed in blocks of 4 instead of in a row. This is incredibly stupid and pretty much guarantees that someone won't be able to charge based on who else is there and their charge port location. Tesla are all in a row.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I am curious about your bad EVGO experiences, were any of those with the new Delta chargers? They have some new 100kw ones and some 350kw dual port power shared ones. For me, those new ones have been rock solid and never limit power. this is the new 350kw ones, those are also the ones being installed at Pilot/Flying J.

There's one of those kind of chargers in Cincinnati that works like absolute shit.

 

[waitingonanr1s]

I am curious about your bad EVGO experiences, were any of those with the new Delta chargers? They have some new 100kw ones and some 350kw dual port power shared ones. For me, those new ones have been rock solid and never limit power. this is the new 350kw ones, those are also the ones being installed at Pilot/Flying J.

The places I've had issues with EvGo have been

Salt Lake City, Target location (https://www.plugshare.com/location/481558) - I think these were the older ones. For the 350/150kw ones - 2 were shown as down in app, one wouldn't initiate and the 4th was in use. There were also 2 100 kw chargers there too, but some guy parked like a jackass and was blocking both. He told me he was just going to be there a few minutes - I was steaming at that point so just moved on to the nearby EA station at Sam's which worked fine. Looks like intermittent problems continue at that location.

Marina, CA (https://www.plugshare.com/location/99329) - I think these are the new ones. Myself and others reported issues with the Yamilca charger there not working throughout Nov. It doesn't appear there's been a new trouble report since Nov - so maybe they've fixed now. It was a new install recently, so maybe it was an install issue. I was able to charge on the other one and actually used it twice while I was in town.

Oh and I don't usually fast charge at home but needed some juice unexpectedly. The connector on Jennifer at Ideal Market, Denver (https://www.plugshare.com/location/270434) has been broken for a month it appears. EVGo has finally marked her as under repair, but it wasn't when I tried.

 

[waitingonanr1s]

I am curious about your bad EVGO experiences, were any of those with the new Delta chargers? They have some new 100kw ones and some 350kw dual port power shared ones. For me, those new ones have been rock solid and never limit power. this is the new 350kw ones, those are also the ones being installed at Pilot/Flying J.

On a positive note, I did like the setup of the chargers at Flying J in Knoxville. It was the most expensive of my drive from CO to NC at 0.51/kwh with their membership.

Also, they spent all that money on a nice canopy but can’t be bothered to put window squeegees out? Maybe I missed them as I was tired. Every other gas station location I’ve been to always has squeegees at the chargers.

 

[iansriv]

This is probably because ID.4 buyers are getting those stupid 30 min *free* charging sessions that they can just unplug/replug and get more time for free. So VW owners are likely charging more than others and clogging up stations next to the Bolts charging to 100%. Other than charging curve testing I've only used DC charging on one road trip and one local trip where I needed a little extra to get home in 11k miles. I'll be taking a longer road trip next week. Point being, if you have L2 AC charging at home you'll very rarely use DC charging. Providing unlimited free charging just incentivizes people to use DC charging when they don't need it which makes the experience worse for everyone when you do need it.

I wonder how much money people actually save using a home charger vs. these "free" chargers? You also have to take into consideration the convenience of home charging. Not judging, just wondering.

 

[iansriv]

We have free charging at work for the first three hours. One of the guys would charge to three hours and then unplug and plug in again. They took his garage access away for a month. This is getting silly.

 

[Tango45]

So limit it to something like 500 kWh. You get a charging incentive, but at least it has limits so folks will be more likely to ration it to when they need to use it for road trips. It's the unlimited for X-years part that's the problem.

As someone who gets the free charging, I agree that's a better structure and would teach better habits. Alex on Autos and/or State of Charge did a pretty good video on this. Poor behavior of people charging is like salt in the wound of EA reliability issues.

If it works like The Ioniq free charging they have 30 minutes free then are charged for anything over. If they unplug and plug back in before an hour has passed they are charged for that session as well.

I think the 10 minute grace period should go away, I’ve been charging for almost 8 years and I never recall taking more than a minute to unplug when done.

These are the terms
”New 2024 and 2023 IONIQ 5 vehicles purchased from an authorized U.S.-based (excluding Alaska) Hyundai dealer on or before December 31, 2023 qualify for limited complimentary charging. Two years of 30-minute complimentary charging sessions at Electrify America charging stations begins upon date of vehicle purchase. Non-transferable. Not available for commercial use, such as ride-hailing or ridesharing. Requires Electrify America account, app, acceptance of Terms of Use, and enrollment in IONIQ 5 Charging Plan. After user-initiated charge session stops or vehicle reaches full charge or charging otherwise stops, and 10-min grace period, idle fees and applicable taxes will apply and user is responsible. There is a 60-minute waiting period between eligible charging sessions, and the plan benefits will not apply to a charging session initiated within this period. In the event of suspected fraud or abuse or other unforeseen events, Hyundai Motor America may discontinue or modify the offer in its sole discretion. Electrify America charging stations are only available in the continental U.S.”

That's not how it works in real life. Terms on Electrify America are below. Despite what it says, you can plug in and plug back in seconds later on the same machine and it considers it a new session. Also, it's tied to your account, not the vehicle, so it would work on another car... like, say you had a Rivian. Lastly, you can also charge two vehicles at the same time, whether at the same chargers or in different geographic locations on the same account, for free.

Not arguing one way or another, but informing y'all of what real world implementation looks like.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

The lines at our local EA sites are directly tied to the Kia, Hyundai , VW , BMW and Porsche dealers in the area offering free 1 or 2 year charging with the purchase of their vehicles. I see the same EV drivers almost every other day charging when I pass by. I don't blame them, but I but it does erk me a little that the minimal times I needed to fast charge, I had to wait because all the KIAs/ VW's are lined up.

Yep ... Was just at an EA station yesterday (I am guilty of trying to use the free charging on my Lucid but mostly if I am out and about) and EVERY vehicle that was charging or waiting to charge was from a brand that is giving away free charging. During my 45 min there there was 2 EQS, 3 ID4, Taycan, iX, i3 and i7. I think once free charging goes away, chargers will be used simply by those that can't charge at home or are traveling.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

Yes and no with the cord length. Some EA chargers are installed in blocks of 4 instead of in a row. This is incredibly stupid and pretty much guarantees that someone won't be able to charge based on who else is there and their charge port location. Tesla are all in a row.

Yes, one EA charger (combo CCS/Chademo) near me that is positioned and has a short cable length that prevents me from being able to use it with my Lucid. I used a different location yesterday and they didn't really give any buffer space between spaces so backing in to the spot and getting in / out while trying to avoid the giant metal bollard was difficult. AND there is nowhere to queue up so people are on the honor system to position themselves in a virtual line. I had two people try to take my charging spot when it was my turn. SOOOOO frustrating.

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