Performance Dual vs Quad - Acceleration, NVH and other differences?

[RivAW]

The Quad warranty is longer.
The price difference for the max pack (OP said $6500) seems silly to keep from having to charge enroute at all (by OP's description likely 1x per trip)...it's not that scary
Agree that most people would not notice the different in performance and acceleration or the barely perceptible (in normal daily driving) range difference assuming large pack.

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[Proxy]

Other comments reminded me of another reason I like the DMP more. I only drive the QM in conserve for long freeway legs. I much prefer the DMP in All purpose for long freeway legs. I can feel the very small delay for the DM to reengage. It doesn’t bother me at all. However, when I push the accelerator hard in the QM in conserve mode to make a freeway pass I do not get the power I am used to in all purpose mode. I made another driver slow down slightly when I passed an 18 wheeler up a hill since I forgot I didn’t have all the horsepower easily available.

 

[KeithPleas]

... in various modes between the performance-dual and quad motor configs.

Well, performance-dual does not HAVE Rally, Drift, or Rock Crawl (or Eco).

 

[ev_fanatic]

I had very similar kinds of questions regarding quad vs. PDM...specifically, I wanted to know how much they differ in All Purpose Mode (APM) given that I intend to drive in that mode 90% of the time. Luckily I got to test drive both of them back to back last week (PDM first and then Quad) and here's my experience (as an aside, I currently drive BMW X5 M50i and my wife has BMW iX 50. Before X5, I drove Model S P90D with ludicrous mode update for 3 yrs):

So, first drove the PDM and I loved it. The power delivery was smooth and in APM, it had decent amount of power (given that I have had fairly fast cars, this is all relative). Power was significantly higher in sport mode - though not hit your head back like my Model S P90D used to. I was also concerned about shifting from AWD to FWD mode at 19mph or on sudden acceleration and I made those many times intentionally during my test drive but personally could not feel the switchover at all - it was very smooth transition. I could see the transition in the imagery on screen but could not feel it (big plus). I was concerned it would be a turbo lag like my wife's old Lexus RX 350 used to have but no, none at all. And the car was quiet - not IX 50 quiet, but very quiet. I loved it and was sold. Till I drove Quad right after it.

On to Quad now - as soon as I started driving it, it immediately felt... lighter, smoother, quicker. Even in APM, I felt it was as powerful as PDM in sport mode... and this is critical for me personally because, like mentioned above, I will mainly drive in APM. In sport mode, Quad reminded me of my Model S P90D - the same hit your head back sensation. I had heard a lot about more noise in Quad vs. Dual but I personally did not perceive it - they seemed identical to me. Perhaps because my test PDM had 20" wheels and Quad had 22" (the former being noisier perhaps made them even). Regardless, I did not find either of them noisy enough to be bothersome.

I think if someone drives them back-to-back like I did, and cares about acceleration and quick response curves even for gentle movements, Quad will stand out within mins, no question. If you don't and depending on what you have driven in the past, you may find PDM more than acceptable. For me personally, now that I know the difference after driving them b2b for 25 mins each, I know I have to go for Quad.

This is EXACTLY what I was asking about. I'm generally (I'd like to believe) perceptive about performance/handling and also have some track experience. Both DMP and Quad are faster in a straight line than any car I've owned so far, but I hope to own this vehicle for over a decade and want something with no regrets.

From what I've been reading, it does seem like the quad will have a slight advantage on the twisties with torque vectoring but I doubt I can safely test that out on public roads until I get used to the car. I also get why everyone is saying that the DMP is "for all practical purposes" up to snuff with the quad, but after the straight line speed wears off, it is always that fun-to-drive-ness that brings a smile without fail.

Thanks for the detailed write-up on your thoughts!

 

[kylealden]

In any event, this question is more about the differences other than the battery pack

I'll put it this way: I'm so unconcerned about the "other than battery pack" differences for the perf dual max pack that I'd trade you straight for my quad if you don't like it.

 

[ev_fanatic]

Well, performance-dual does not HAVE Rally, Drift, or Rock Crawl (or Eco).

Drifts sounds like fun! Have you tried it?

 

[kylealden]

Drifts sounds like fun! Have you tried it?

Drift is fun. Stupid amounts of fun. But (at least for me) you'll almost never get to safely use it unless you have access to a dirt track somewhere.

 

[ev_fanatic]

Drift is fun. Stupid amounts of fun. But (at least for me) you'll almost never get to safely use it unless you have access to a dirt track somewhere.

I used to live in the NE where I used to drift my BMW 335xi (rear biased AWD) in the snow when there were no cars (parked or driving) around. It used to be loads of fun!

 

[KeithPleas]

Drifts sounds like fun! Have you tried it?

Alas I have not - it's not really my thing.

 

[ev_fanatic]

For anyone catching up on this thread, my understanding so far is:

1. For normal day-to-day, both motor configs are mostly the same (to some); both stupidly fast
-> Accelerating quad in conserve can be relatively unexpectedly slow
-> Accelerating suddenly DMP above 19mph when cruising can cause a barely perceptible power ramp up
-> Quad in all purpose feels somewhat like DMP in sport mode

2. Ranges are very similar with large pack (quad on conserve), max pack adds 20-30 miles on the freeway.

3. Quad has torque vectoring + drift/rally/rock-crawl modes (feels more nimble to some), DMP has a differential which may help in off-camber (sloping sideways) + low-traction scenarios.

4. DMP is quieter

5. Quad has the half-shaft-clunk issue which may or may not have been resolved.

6. Quad has a 5 year warranty, DMP is 4 years.

Anything I missed?

 

[MountainBikeDude]

I've had the Quad R1T on 20's since late march this year. No halfshaft clunks or clicking despite my spirited on and off-road driving.

If you turn off the music in the vehicle, you can hear the motors. Personally I like it, it's not obtrusive, and is only slightly audible. Turn the music up to level 3 or 4 and you won't hear them. I was drifting in the snow a couple nights ago and my "giggles" were deafening by comparison.

Dual is quieter, than the already quiet Quad, and around 10% more efficient

Quad is more fun in every way I've drifted it on dirt roads, in snow now, and shredded the Sea to Sky highway (responsibly) between Vancouver and Whistler, and the truck doesn't skip a beat.

If I was to buy the truck again, I would likely still go for the quad in its current form (Bosch) over the Dual. The additional warranty period is just icing on the cake.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

-> Accelerating quad in conserve can be relatively unexpectedly slow

On this point, I don't drive in conserve from a standing start to highway speeds with gusto. If I'm trying to eek out more range while road tripping, I typically get up to cruising speed in AP, then kick it down to conserve mode and continue along. The power on tap is still more than most any non EV on the road and can handle passing with relative ease.

 

[ev_fanatic]

Interesting discussion here related to regen differences between the motors:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/s/hcPOJb178J

 

[R.I.P.]

I’m not really sure I’d call it an issue. Some make noise, they don’t break.

The noise is coming from unacceptably loose tolerances. It is an early design, and as is common in early designs, that part didn't get done quite right.

Loose tolerances coupled with heavy vehicles and high horsepower don't get better over time; they get worse.

Just one of the things Rivian learned from the first effort, and they made the second generation drivetrain quite a bit better.

 

[R.I.P.]

For anyone catching up on this thread, my understanding so far is:

1. For normal day-to-day, both motor configs are mostly the same (to some); both stupidly fast
-> Accelerating quad in conserve can be relatively unexpectedly slow
-> Accelerating suddenly DMP above 19mph when cruising can cause a barely perceptible power ramp up
-> Quad in all purpose feels somewhat like DMP in sport mode

2. Ranges are very similar with large pack (quad on conserve), max pack adds 20-30 miles on the freeway.

3. Quad has torque vectoring + drift/rally/rock-crawl modes (feels more nimble to some), DMP has a differential which may help in off-camber (sloping sideways) + low-traction scenarios.

4. DMP is quieter

5. Quad has the half-shaft-clunk issue which may or may not have been resolved.

6. Quad has a 5 year warranty, DMP is 4 years.

Anything I missed?

Yes. The DMP has better traction on slippery stuff and off-road; if you do much of that stuff.

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