Rivian introduces LFP Batteries

[LL75]

Which battery would you rather have?

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[Dark-Fx]

Not switching. Introducing.

 

[Headingley]

I would like to know the real world range difference between the current and new battery in the cold. Apparently Rivian also developing a heat pump.

 

[LL75]

Would you rather be able to charge the car to 100% all the time to get the full range with new battery?

 

[Goose]

I thought the LFP chem were for the standard packs only? I mean, I like the idea of a cheaper battery that can regularly be charged to 100% for when I need to make my tows to the beach. I am not versed in battery tech though and there’s probably a reason Rivian launched with a different chemistry.

 

[Zoidz]

Not switching. Introducing.

And it's initially only for the EDV, R1 to follow at some later, unspecified time.

"As stated earlier, the LFP batteries would start their career with the EDV vans and later get into the R1 vehicles."

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

Here’s ChatGPT-4 on LFP batteries:


Q: What are the advantages of lfp batteries? Why weren’t they used earlier? Are there disadvantages?



A: Lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4 or LFP) batteries have several advantages compared to other types of batteries, which have made them increasingly popular for various applications. Some of the advantages of LFP batteries include:

1. Safety: LFP batteries are known for their excellent thermal and chemical stability, which makes them inherently safer compared to other types of lithium-ion batteries. They are less prone to overheating, thermal runaway, and other safety hazards, making them a safer choice for many applications.
2. Long cycle life: LFP batteries have a longer cycle life compared to other lithium-ion batteries, which means they can be charged and discharged more times without significant degradation in performance. This makes them suitable for long-term use in applications such as electric vehicles (EVs) and renewable energy storage, where durability and longevity are important.
3. High energy density: LFP batteries have a relatively high energy density, which means they can store a large amount of energy in a compact and lightweight package. This makes them suitable for applications that require high energy storage capacity in limited space, such as portable electronics, electric vehicles, and energy storage systems.
4. Wide temperature range: LFP batteries have a wider operating temperature range compared to other types of lithium-ion batteries. They can operate efficiently in a wide range of temperatures, from extreme cold to high heat, which makes them suitable for use in diverse environments and climates.
5. Environmentally friendly: LFP batteries are considered more environmentally friendly compared to some other types of lithium-ion batteries, as they do not contain toxic materials such as cobalt or nickel, which are commonly found in other types of lithium-ion batteries. LFP batteries are also more easily recyclable, reducing the environmental impact.

As for why LFP batteries were not used earlier, there are a few reasons. One of the main reasons is that LFP batteries have a lower nominal voltage compared to other types of lithium-ion batteries, which makes them less suitable for some applications that require higher voltages. Additionally, LFP batteries have a slightly lower energy density compared to some other types of lithium-ion batteries, which may have limited their use in applications that require the highest energy density, such as smartphones and laptops.
There are also some disadvantages of LFP batteries, including:

1. Lower energy density: While LFP batteries have a relatively high energy density compared to some other types of batteries, they have a lower energy density compared to some other types of lithium-ion batteries, which may limit their use in applications that require the highest energy density.
2. Higher cost: LFP batteries tend to be slightly more expensive to manufacture compared to some other types of lithium-ion batteries, due to the materials used and manufacturing processes involved, which may impact their cost-effectiveness in some applications.
3. Lower voltage: LFP batteries have a lower nominal voltage (typically around 3.2 volts) compared to other types of lithium-ion batteries (typically around 3.6 to 3.7 volts), which may require additional circuitry or components to achieve the desired voltage levels in some applications.
4. Larger size and weight: LFP batteries may have a larger size and weight compared to some other types of lithium-ion batteries, which may impact their suitability for certain applications that require compact and lightweight batteries.

Despite these disadvantages, LFP batteries have gained significant popularity in recent years due to their safety, long cycle life, high energy density, wide temperature range, and environmental friendliness. They are widely used in applications such as electric vehicles, renewable energy storage, backup power systems, and more.

 

[Franksmartin]

LFP batteries underperform Lithium Ion batteries in the cold.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/carmakers-are-switching-to-cheaper-ev-batteries-but-theres-a-big-trade

 

[COdogman]

This makes a ton of sense for the EDVs, but I personally wouldn’t want it in my truck since I live in a place that is cold 4 months a year. Unless they have a solution for that, of course…

 

[Cycleman]

Wonder if this is the reason why the updated range of R1T went down when they released Max Pack numbers? They are switching to the new battery chem that are less energy dense then currently being produced.

 

[Dark-Fx]

This makes a ton of sense for the EDVs, but I personally wouldn’t want it in my truck since I live in a place that is cold 4 months a year. Unless they have a solution for that, of course…

I'd expect to see better insulation in the pack, and be able to schedule charging so that it is just finishing when you expect to use the vehicle next instead of wasting all of the waste energy from charging.

My truck charged way longer than normal last night because I had a bunch of errands to do yesterday. Regen wasn't even limited this morning when I got in the truck and it was 30F outside. Really wish having all the latent heat would be typical.

 

[COdogman]

I'd expect to see better insulation in the pack, and be able to schedule charging so that it is just finishing when you expect to use the vehicle next instead of wasting all of the waste energy from charging.

My truck charged way longer than normal last night because I had a bunch of errands to do yesterday. Regen wasn't even limited this morning when I got in the truck and it was 30F outside. Really wish having all the latent heat would be typical.

I’m sure they have something planned. Obviously they know what their customers use their trucks for and where they are popular.

Battery tech seems to get more confusing all the time. Just this week there were announcements about 2 different technologies boasting big range improvements??‍

Silicon Anode Technology:
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...0-range-boost-with-silicon-anode-battery-tech

Water based Batteries:
https://electrek.co/2023/03/31/storage-capacity-water-based-batteries/

 

[Riviot]

Higher cost: LFP batteries tend to be slightly more expensive

I thought LFP was cheaper? Did your Super Google get it wrong?

 

[zefram47]

I'd expect to see better insulation in the pack, and be able to schedule charging so that it is just finishing when you expect to use the vehicle next instead of wasting all of the waste energy from charging.

My truck charged way longer than normal last night because I had a bunch of errands to do yesterday. Regen wasn't even limited this morning when I got in the truck and it was 30F outside. Really wish having all the latent heat would be typical.

This for sure. My MINI had a scheduled departure time and allowed for the "low cost charging" schedule to predict the end of charging. So if I said I was leaving at 7am it would finish charging about 30 min prior to departure and you could simultaneously tell it to precondition the cabin for the departure time. Kinda baffling that Rivian still hasn't added that feature. The MINI doesn't have a battery heater at all, so this was the only way to try and mitigate cold soak and pulling as much as 50% of it's acceleration on cold mornings.

 

[brancky3]

I thought the LFP chem were for the standard packs only? I mean, I like the idea of a cheaper battery that can regularly be charged to 100% for when I need to make my tows to the beach. I am not versed in battery tech though and there’s probably a reason Rivian launched with a different chemistry.

You can regularly charge the large battery to 100% without any issues at all. Just don't leave it at 100% for more than a few hours.

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