"Rivian Vehicle Access System 2.0" is coming?

[electruck]

From what they said - much/most of the cost savings for EDV came from the Enduro motors, which they've already stated they expect to translate to the R1 vehicles as well.

More so the combination of LFP batteries along with Enduro motors.

I believe Rivian also mentioned they would drastically reduce cabling in the vehicle. A great way to do this is using an 800v architecture.

An 800V architecture would allow for smaller gauge copper in the motor windings and high voltage circuits but would do nothing to reduce the data cabling between modules scattered around the vehicle. The cost savings they are pursuing will come from reducing the number of modules and their interconnections and, possibly, the length of cabling between the remaining modules. The Enduro motors just now coming to market are still 400V motors so I don't see a move to a true 800V architecture any time soon, especially for the R1.

Finally - the last hint - Rivian put back on their website that the RAN chargers would be capable of 300kW+ charging in the future. What is the point of that if their own vehicles can't utilize it?

When companies refer to the "future", they're talking about much further down the road than even "s00n". More than likely the 800V architecture will be introduced with R2 (Rivian has stated that 800V would come with next-generation vehicle platforms).

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[VSG]

It is important to note they've stated they are shutting down the lines for a few weeks next year. I don't think they'd need that time period of lost manufacturing capability for a shorter wire harness and some chips/control modules.

It's important to note that part of this shut down will be to reconfigure the R1/EDV mix from 65k/85k to 85k/65k. Two weeks is not a lot of time for that ...

 

[iansriv]

While I think this is good, I like waiting by my car for it to open. This gives me an opportunity to answer questions from my adoring audience that randomly show up from nowhere. Take for example getting out of the car at the gym yesterday when an elderly German gentleman told me I owe him thousands of dollars for his investment in Rivian. When I came out of the gym a lady asked "what is that?"

 

[Yota2R1T]

While I think this is good, I like waiting by my car for it to open. This gives me an opportunity to answer questions from my adoring audience that randomly show up from nowhere. Take for example getting out of the car at the gym yesterday when an elderly German gentleman told me I owe him thousands of dollars for his investment in Rivian. When I came out of the gym a lady asked "what is that?"

Nice, come to think of it you owe me too! ?

 

[SeaGeo]

Finally - the last hint - Rivian put back on their website that the RAN chargers would be capable of 300kW+ charging in the future. What is the point of that if their own vehicles can't utilize it?

it's said 300kw for as long as I can remember. The chargers themselves are 300kw (I'm not sure where the + is coming from TBH), so if an 800v vehicle plugged in once they open it up, there's your 300kw.

 

[Surferdude]

Too bad Rivian couldn't copy Ford's system. Our Lightning has PAAK but also a keypad to unlock and start the vehicle during the rare cases PAAK doesn't work. It's the perfect combination of convenience and reliability since the keypad works 100% of the time if PAAK (the convenient option) should fail. And surfing is awesome with the keypad. No silly band to wear.

 

[bpeter]

UWB would definitely fix the terrible PAAK experience.
Just some sensors in the door handles (if they aren't there) and software tuning of the BLE could also help a lot.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Good possibility this is for R2 with potential for R1 enhancement for future production. I think extremely unlikely this would be available for retrofit.

That's what I thought too. Likely tied to the long rumored "platform refresh".

 

[evhelphub]

More so the combination of LFP batteries along with Enduro motors.


An 800V architecture would allow for smaller gauge copper in the motor windings and high voltage circuits but would do nothing to reduce the data cabling between modules scattered around the vehicle. The cost savings they are pursuing will come from reducing the number of modules and their interconnections and, possibly, the length of cabling between the remaining modules. The Enduro motors just now coming to market are still 400V motors so I don't see a move to a true 800V architecture any time soon, especially for the R1.


When companies refer to the "future", they're talking about much further down the road than even "s00n". More than likely the 800V architecture will be introduced with R2 (Rivian has stated that 800V would come with next-generation vehicle platforms).

It's important to note that part of this shut down will be to reconfigure the R1/EDV mix from 65k/85k to 85k/65k. Two weeks is not a lot of time for that ...

You both make good points. To reiterate, this is all my speculation - for fun.

I'd still put my money down that one or both happen. It is also quite possible they only do it for certain trims or even a new high performance model that has been discussed here. We will see!

 

[SurfnBike]

Locking and unlocking the R1T is the biggest PITA I've ever experienced in any of the 10+ vehicles I've owned. Glad I'm not the only one who is experiencing this--I thought I was going mad, standing in front of my truck pressing the unlock button ten times on the keyfob wondering why the hell the door handles won't open up? I even got a new keyfob and same problem. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[djrockadoo]

I’d pay real monies for any sort of retrofit that fixed this issue. Sometimes I literally want to kick my door panel when I’m just standing there looking like an idiot. Bueller…. Bueller

 

[MidnightRivian]

I’m used to carrying the FOB and my phone at all times with proximity on for both devices. At worst there is a couple second delay.

I’m not worried if this helps keep the car more secure compared to chargers and corvettes that are easily stolen using traditional key fobs.

My issues are minor and only complaint is range with the key fob

 

[DannyB]

I think they've alluded to this in the past. The CarKey consortium uses BLE UltraWideband, IIRC, and the current Rivian architecture doesn't include the hardware for it. While I'm sure some of us would prefer just a normal fob in the pocket with a button on the door to lock/unlock, implementing CarKey would be a good start to improving things.

The second part is wrong.
BLE, UWB, etc are different technologies.

BLE is a 2.4ghz technology. it's a low energy version of bluetooth. regular bluetooth is both complex and requires keeping chips awake alot. BLE is not. It's more tailored to being asleep most of the time, and using low power scanning/etc to quickly wake up when necessary.

UWB is a 10+ghz technology. Often 60ghz in fact. All things being equal, it transfer the same amount of data much faster. So for a beaconing technology, it can be lower power because you are only awake for 10us instead of 50us or whatever.

The downside is range and obstruction. Range is highly affected by any obstacle. It won't go through even simple walls, for example.

Bluetooth has no UWB variant.

What is happening here is essentially using UWB to keep short-range communication and detect/prevent replay attacks. UWB includes time-of-flight info, which, if someone amplifies the signal (like they do with a keyfob), will be way wrong and therefore easily detectable.

This allows for nearby secure proximity lock/unlock.

Anything over greater distance is using BLE.

Keys are stored securely in standard digital wallets either way.

So, rivian has the hardware for secure BLE, at least i am too lazy to read the entire spec, but at a glance it could be compatible with at least the CCC digital key 2.0 spec. If the digital key 3.0 *requires* UWB support for the above, it would probably not. I don't remember who makes the SOC/etc for this part, but a number of common ones have had UWB support built in (but mostly. unused) for years, so it's possible it already has one.

 

[zefram47]

The second part is wrong.
BLE, UWB, etc are different technologies.

BLE is a 2.4ghz technology. it's a low energy version of bluetooth. regular bluetooth is both complex and requires keeping chips awake alot. BLE is not. It's more tailored to being asleep most of the time, and using low power scanning/etc to quickly wake up when necessary.

UWB is a 10+ghz technology. Often 60ghz in fact. All things being equal, it transfer the same amount of data much faster. So for a beaconing technology, it can be lower power because you are only awake for 10us instead of 50us or whatever.

The downside is range and obstruction. Range is highly affected by any obstacle. It won't go through even simple walls, for example.

Bluetooth has no UWB variant.

What is happening here is essentially using UWB to keep short-range communication and detect/prevent replay attacks. UWB includes time-of-flight info, which, if someone amplifies the signal (like they do with a keyfob), will be way wrong and therefore easily detectable.

This allows for nearby secure proximity lock/unlock.

Anything over greater distance is using BLE.

Keys are stored securely in standard digital wallets either way.

So, rivian has the hardware for secure BLE, at least i am too lazy to read the entire spec, but at a glance it could be compatible with at least the CCC digital key 2.0 spec. If the digital key 3.0 *requires* UWB support for the above, it would probably not. I don't remember who makes the SOC/etc for this part, but a number of common ones have had UWB support built in (but mostly. unused) for years, so it's possible it already has one.

Thanks for the info. I've never looked deeply into UWB and was relying on Apple's marketing wank where they seemed to tie BLE and UWB together. But that makes sense then why UWB would require different hardware. The image that got added to the OP's post does suggest UWB hardware being added to the next gen system.

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