Tesla Charging cannot be the standard NA adopts to.

[rraj2k81]

Came across this article in the Newyorker,
Elon Musk’s Shadow Rule | The New Yorker
and a couple of quotes stood out,

'Elon desperately wants the world to be saved. But only if he can be the one to save it.”

“Living in the world we live in, in which Elon runs this company and it is a private business under his control, we are living off his good graces,” a Pentagon official told me. “That sucks.”

“In the areas he wants to compete in, he has a very hard time sharing the spotlight, or not being the center of attention.”

And I am sure we will read more about this when the Walter Isaacson biography of Musk comes out.

This article sums up why I don't want BEV makers in North America to adopt to the Tesla charging network and keep upgrading the CCS networks, because we cannot go into a BEV reliance and give complete control and monopoly to a megalomaniac like Musk who would love nothing but the type of control he loves.

I do wish that North American regulators would push Tesla towards CCS like they did in Europe for federal funding, but short of this happening if BEV makers are going to adopt the Tesla standard, then I would like them to push Tesla to divest the Super Charger Network into it's own company, with an independant board of governors where Musk has absolutely no rights or say in it's operations or directions.

Personally, I don't understand how adopting to Tesla will fix the current issues with CCS, which is not the standard itself, but rather the integration. And this issue would absolutely be there when other BEVsstart accessing the Tesla SCs. Tesla also has to upgrade all current SC stationg to their V4s if the experience is even going to be somewhat smooth.

All of this also goes without saying, that there is absolutely no guarantee Musk would not do a complete 180 and say 'Nope, not happening', which I absolutely expect him to do.

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[RandomMcRandomFace]

Sorry but . . . What? How is Elon musk going to “do a 180”? The plug is the plug. He can’t change (at least in some destructive manner) it lest no existing Tesla work. Not to mention it has been submitted to the SAE for purposes of being a standard. If you are referring to the super charger network, they signed contracts. Not aware that Elon can breach those whenever he wants. He also wants the $$$ (which is why he is going this in the first place). And you don’t seem to understand the charging network. V3 and V4 already use CCS communication protocols (and work fine in Europe with other carmakers). This is a huge win for EVs in NA.

CCS is 100% dead in North America beyond existing cars and legacy support.

edit - I now have my R1S and ditched the model y (in part because of my desire to not be associated with Elon, so I am no fan of his)

 

[Singletracker]

Musk is a scary MF. Way too much money and power. The world should be wary, lest he get completely out of control. Just my humble opinion. Having said that, having access to the Teslas charging network for non-Tesla certainly seems like a win.

 

[COdogman]

This is why many of us agree and are against the move unless the Tesla connector is truly standardized by SAE and in no way controlled by Tesla. That means they hand over the patents.

He is a toddler with a big bank account.

 

[HeyEllwood]

Completely agree with him wanting to be the center of attention on nearly everything he does and touches. Kind of sad how he turned out to be..

 

[Eeyore]

I do wish that North American regulators would push Tesla towards CCS like they did in Europe for federal funding, but short of this happening if BEV makers are going to adopt the Tesla standard, then I would like them to push Tesla to divest the Super Charger Network into it's own company, with an independant board of governors where Musk has absolutely no rights or say in it's operations or directions.

This ^

 

[srkz]

It’s just a connector. If Musk changes his, the non-Tesla networks like EA and RAN etc will continue using the standard NACS plug and we’ll be no worse off than we are right now with no access to superchargers. There’s still going to plenty of charging networks that Musk doesn’t control, they’re just changing the plug they use in collaboration with the manufacturers putting the new plug in their vehicles. Don’t worry about Musk, as soon as other people start putting the connector on their cars and charging networks it doesn’t belong to him anymore.

 

[JayinNJ]

Personally, I don't understand how adopting to Tesla will fix the current issues with CCS, which is not the standard itself, but rather the integration. And this issue would absolutely be there when other BEVsstart accessing the Tesla SCs. Tesla also has to upgrade all current SC stationg to their V4s if the experience is even going to be somewhat smooth.

CCS will still continue to develop and add NACS connectors. Tesla is just opening up to all cars. The two are not mutually exclusive. CCS vendors to this point have dropped the ball and failed to provide plentiful and reliable fast charging. Tesla has. That is the issue.

 

[rraj2k81]

Sorry but . . . What? How is Elon musk going to “do a 180”? The plug is the plug. He can’t change (at least in some destructive manner) it lest no existing Tesla work. Not to mention it has been submitted to the SAE for purposes of being a standard. If you are referring to the super charger network, they signed contracts. Not aware that Elon can breach those whenever he wants.

So far every manufacturer who has 'gotten into an agreement' to adopt the Tesla connector has not said anything about this agreement. It does not say anything about how they will be allowed to use the chargers or what conditions and what concessions were made or given. So until these details come out, there is no absolutel certainity about an iron clad contract. Only time will say, if a bumblebee distracts Musk and he competely throws out these contracts.

Here is a guy who was ready to walk away from a $44billion agreement, during his Twitter takeover. So anything is possible with him.

And you don’t seem to understand the charging network. V3 and V4 already use CCS communication protocols (and work fine in Europe with other carmakers). This is a huge win for EVs in NA.

I understand more than you give me credit.

Also, V3 and V4 already use started supporting CCS communication protocols, just like they have been supporting Chademo. Tesla has always used their own communication protocol and supported Chademo for the longest time.
This is why outside of the SC network Tesla's were able to charge at Chademo chargers with adaptors.
Tesla enabled CCS on their cars just recently, around the time they released their official CCS1 adaptor. And cars older then 2018 (?, I could be wrong) need to get a retrofit done to be able to 'talk' to CCS chargers with the CCS1 adaptor.
And in order for CCS cars to charge they need to plug into Tesla SC with the magic dock, and other chargers will not work, and there is no CCS1 to Tesla adaptor.

CCS is 100% dead in North America beyond existing cars and legacy support.

A lot of car brands still have not jumped on the Tesla band wagon, and more importantly the recent announcement that BMW, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, and Stellantis are going to build their own charging network with CCS and Tesla connectors, are still signs that CCS not going away any time soon.

If I would venture a guess, it is here to stay. The whole Tesla adoption is not going to start becoming a reality until 2025. And even then brands are still sticking with CCS alongside Tesla Connector.

edit - I now have my R1S and ditched the model y (in part because of my desire to not be associated with Elon, so I am no fan of his)

This is where I agree with you. I can't wait to get rid of my Model S when my R1S gets ready next year, for a whole lot of reasons, including not being tied to Musk !

 

[Zorg]

This ship has sailed a while back. CCS as a plug will go away in NA over the next few years.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

Yep, Elon won. And you never know when in the future if he will decide to lock out Tesla Superchargers for other brands on a whim ... just like he did to Ukraine and Starlink access.

 

[tosehee]

I personally dislike Elon as a person, but Idon't see the problem adopting the NACS if it speed up the adoption rate.

 

[SASSquatch]

This is why many of us agree and are against the move unless the Tesla connector is truly standardized by SAE and in no way controlled by Tesla. That means they hand over the patents.

He is a toddler with a big bank account.

Pay the man! (and not the toddler!)

 

[SDH]

It’s happening. Get over it and move on.

 

[SASSquatch]

Came across this article in the Newyorker,
Elon Musk’s Shadow Rule | The New Yorker
and a couple of quotes stood out,

'Elon desperately wants the world to be saved. But only if he can be the one to save it.”

“Living in the world we live in, in which Elon runs this company and it is a private business under his control, we are living off his good graces,” a Pentagon official told me. “That sucks.”

“In the areas he wants to compete in, he has a very hard time sharing the spotlight, or not being the center of attention.”

And I am sure we will read more about this when the Walter Isaacson biography of Musk comes out.

This article sums up why I don't want BEV makers in North America to adopt to the Tesla charging network and keep upgrading the CCS networks, because we cannot go into a BEV reliance and give complete control and monopoly to a megalomaniac like Musk who would love nothing but the type of control he loves.

I do wish that North American regulators would push Tesla towards CCS like they did in Europe for federal funding, but short of this happening if BEV makers are going to adopt the Tesla standard, then I would like them to push Tesla to divest the Super Charger Network into it's own company, with an independant board of governors where Musk has absolutely no rights or say in it's operations or directions.

Personally, I don't understand how adopting to Tesla will fix the current issues with CCS, which is not the standard itself, but rather the integration. And this issue would absolutely be there when other BEVsstart accessing the Tesla SCs. Tesla also has to upgrade all current SC stationg to their V4s if the experience is even going to be somewhat smooth.

All of this also goes without saying, that there is absolutely no guarantee Musk would not do a complete 180 and say 'Nope, not happening', which I absolutely expect him to do.

Your thread is bringing back memories of a similar thread I started months ago. 100% agree that EM has way too much control of charging and that NACS adoption is putting even more reliance on networks he 100% controls.

We need fair and open competition. That is why a group of automakers have come together to form a coalition to develop tens of thousands of L3 chargers that have NACS AND CCS.

To those of you on this forum dancing on CCS's grave. Keep dancing. It won't change a thing.

CCS will never die because IT IS THE STANDARD in Europe and that will never change. In the US, CCS will continue to be provided for legacy support indefinitely and there are still OEM holdouts who have not fully committed to NACS and are part of that partnership building their own network.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/indus...makers-to-build-network-of-30000-ev-chargers/

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